Author Topic: Player mucks (thinking win), then discovers a live player, what happens to bet?  (Read 3184 times)

MikeB

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TDA rules provide that if an active players hand is erroneously mucked by the dealer, any uncalled bet by that player will be returned to him/her.  What is the ruling when the hand is voluntarily mucked by a player who thinks their bet has prompted all players to fold and doesn't realize there's another live player yet to act? Does the remaining live player win the as-yet uncalled bet?

http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?topic=50.0

AleaLeedsCardRoom

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I think they should be able to call it, and be able to win it, up to their amount of chips of course, just as if they had called "all in" with less than the actual bet.
Theproblem IMO is when there is more than one live player left, I think that if they both call they should be allowed to contest the pot with the "free money" in it.

This way the player who folded will learn to pay attention.  It's simple why give up your cards when you haven't been awarded the pot, when ever I win a pot the dealer only gets my cards when I get the pot.  Nice and easy!!!

Lewis

Stuart Murray

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I believe my previous stance on this would be to invoke the first and return the uncalled portion and award the pot to the player with cards, however this would be determined by the actions of the player still with cards, in an uncalled pot I don't see me giving the extra to the remaining player.

Regards
Stuart
Stuart Murray
The Nuts Poker League
South Scotland &
National Tournament Director

Brian Vickers

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I remember a hand like this at my card room before I worked there (I was on the table at the time, so this was about 5 years ago).  Player A bets, Player B mucks.  The dealer looks around, sees that no one else has cards, drops the stub, pushes A the pot, mucks all the cards and THEN player C whose cards were not ON the table, but rather they were in his hand off the table says "um.. what are you doing I still have cards?"  The floor made the dealer pay player C the size of the pot (through payroll deduction).
Personally I think this was an angle shoot by player C, and I think he should have his hand ruled dead by not speaking up until after the dealer had gone through all the motions.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 07:21:15 AM by Brian Vickers »

Nick C

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Brian,

 I'm a little confused on your explanation of that hand. I'm thinking that you got Players A and B mixed up (because Player B folded). I will also assume that the game was a flop game because that could make a difference in a ruling, also. If I understand the situation correctly, player C should not have been awarded any portion of that pot. Players must keep their cards on the table, not up in the air, or beyond the table edge. I don't agree with the ruling that the dealer was held responsible for what appears to be violations of poker etiquette by Player C.

 The original post by Mike B is interesting because there are so many different scenarios that could have occured. If a player makes a bet and thinks that he has won the pot, only to discover that there is another player in the hand after he mucks his hand, then the hand is dead. If he knew that another player was in, why would he muck his hand? We would have to assume he truly did not see the other player, especially if he had a nut hand, for example. The perfect fix would have been for the dealer to recognize that the player was about to surrender his hand and stop him from mucking his hand and pushing it back to him and telling him that there is another player yet to act.

 I like what Lewis said about the players holding onto their cards until the dealer pushes them the pot. That is a simple rule to follow for a player. Hold your cards until you see a hand better than yours, or until you get the pot pushed to you.

Brian Vickers

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Ah, yes, I meant A, edited post to reflect that.  And no, I don't agree with that ruling either, just sharing the story.

Goodpokerjody

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The chips need to stay in the pot.  It's every player's responsibility to protect his or her and which includes, but is not limited to, knowing how many other players are in the hand.  If we allow them to bet then muck their hand and get the chips back when they claim they didn't see the other player, it's not going to be long before the professional shot takers have that move down solid whenever they bluff and see they are about to be called.