Author Topic: Dealer open folded cards  (Read 246 times)

Heiko0912

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Dealer open folded cards
« on: September 10, 2018, 06:09:37 AM »
Hello to everybody from Germany!
On a NLH Tournament something stupid happened.
The River card is dealt, Player are Heads-Up.
Player A bets, Player B called. No Player all-in.
Player A tabled his hand and shows two Pairs.
Player B looks in his cards, then looks to the board, whispers silently (nobody heard it) and throw his cards in the direction of the muck. The Dealer stop the cards, look to Player B and then tabled the hand. Player B didnít saw that he had a flush.
I donít know, what the hell the dealer thought of, but I gave the pot to Player A because he tabled his hand in a correct way. I donít  punish Player A, because the dealer makes a mistake.
What is your decision?
Excuse my English writing.
Best regards.

Boris Mauboussin

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Re: Dealer open folded cards
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2018, 06:59:00 AM »
Well, I see multiple things to discuss here.


Considering Player B's hand has not been killed (cards have been identified) and have been faced up (no matter how), the hand should be live.

Quote
Sidestory
I know a situation happened in Paris in February on a cash game table.
(Uncommon betting pattern from the beginning of the hand)
River
Player C bet
Player D call
C show
(now timestretch Matrix mode)
D throw his cards face down towards the dealer who just removed the cut card from the bottom of the deck and throw it on the table.
D cards and cut card collide in the air, D cards turn face up on the table... He has the NUTS !
Pot was awarded to B

Yes, the dealer made a wrong call by facing up the cards, but to me (and I know we all are not on the same page on this) you can't alter a judgement just because your staff made a mistake. If you do, that means you are doing some kind of commercial gesture (like offering a drink to a customer who got pushed by a waiter) and on a tournament we must stick close to 100% equity no matter what.

Also, I really should have ask to the dealer once he got out from the table, what he was thinking about, not to have an argument but to understand if he got confused, or it was a deliberate call.

Anyway great case, thank you !


Dave Miller

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Re: Dealer open folded cards
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2018, 07:03:58 AM »
I canít think of a single scenario where the rules would support the dealerís decision to turn player Bís hand over.

On the contrary, his action violates the ďone person to a handĒ rule which essentially would kill player Bís hand.


On a side note, what WAS the dealer thinking???
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown.
But how much does it cost to knock on wood?

Heiko0912

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Re: Dealer open folded cards
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2018, 06:48:02 PM »
No other ideas for ruling this case???

Nick C

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Re: Dealer open folded cards
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2018, 06:26:57 PM »
I actually replied to this yesterday and for some reason, it's missing. I agree with Boris: "Considering Player B's hand has not been killed (cards have been identified) and have been faced up (no matter how), the hand should be live."

 The dealer needs to be schooled on this one.

 I would not consider the dealer as a player in the mentioned "one player to a hand."

Bottom line: Player B should have been awarded the pot.

BillM16

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Re: Dealer open folded cards
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2018, 06:33:27 PM »
I actually replied to this yesterday and for some reason, it's missing.
Hey Nick,

You're not losing your mind ... see:
Heiko0912,

 Wow...that's a bad situation. I understand your reasoning but I believe the pot should have been awarded to the best hand. The dealer had no right to expose the discarded hand, however as long as both players were in for all bets and the discarded hand was identified with certainty I would have to disagree with your decision.

Nick C

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Re: Dealer open folded cards
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2018, 07:09:56 PM »
Thanks, Bill...funny how that happened ???

BillM16

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Re: Dealer open folded cards
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2018, 07:12:24 PM »
Thanks, Bill...funny how that happened ???

The OP was posted in two forums.