Author Topic: Cash game PLO - Difficult ruling  (Read 136 times)

Shehu-J

  • TDA Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Cash game PLO - Difficult ruling
« on: May 03, 2018, 08:01:09 PM »
Hello everyone ,My name is Julian I m currently A tournament Director in a local Poker club in Greece.

I ran into a Difficult decision last night on a Cash game Hand, 2 Players at showdown : Player 1 Shows Third Nuts ,Player 2 Overexcited tables his 4 cards with force and by mistake 1 card sliped off the table ,2 were properly tabled and 1 into the killed cards and unable to be identified.

To be more specific the board was Ks5s6s Ah 4h ,Player 2 Had As9s4h ,the As fell off the table and the 9s4d was proerly tabled.
What would u guys do ?

Thanks in advance

Nick C

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3150
    • http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=557;sa=forumProfile
Re: Cash game PLO - Difficult ruling
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2018, 08:56:56 PM »
Welcome to the Forum, Shehu...good question.

 Because it's a cash game you might have a little more wiggle room, so to speak. Tournament rules are often more strict. Without having more information I'll give it a shot.

 If you were certain that player 2 only had four cards, and you could clearly see that the ace of spades fell off the table I would have a difficult time not awarding him the pot. You'd be surprised at the integrity of many players. Player number one would be disappointed that he or she lost but they would probably concede the pot to the ace high nut flush, even if the card fell off the table.

 I mentioned earlier that I'd need a little more information to arrive at the best decision. I know you need all cards to win and I know that cards should never leave the table but sometimes strange situations occur and you need to rule in the best interest of the game. Sometimes cash games are between friends and the stakes are very low and if the pot is small whatever you decide is fine. However, if you are in a situation where both players involved are strong competitors (and not facebook buddies) a solution like offering to split the pot might not work.

 Let's look at it this way. You know that Player 2 probably had the best hand but he must show all four of his hole cards to win. So, you could easily justify a ruling where you would award the pot to the only remaining player with a complete hand...player #one. How would you feel if you killed player #2's hand knowing he had the nut flush? Your conscience or gut feeling might be the best gauge to answer your own question. It's a big job working the floor in poker...remember if it were that easy everyone would be doing it.

 I will pass along a brief excerpt from a book written by one of my favorite authors of no-nonsense poker rules. His name is Chuck Ferry and the book is "RULES OF POKER" He wrote: "When strict enforcement of a rule will cause an obviously unfair result, then the floorperson shall have the unrestricted right to waive any rule and make the decision which will cause a fair result."

Shehu-J

  • TDA Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Cash game PLO - Difficult ruling
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2018, 09:39:11 AM »
Hello Nick C ,thank you for the warm welcome and the very quick response.
I was positive player 2 had 4 cards and also saw the As fall off ,fortunetly i happen to be there when the situation occured.

Long story short ,i awarded the pot to the player with 3 tabled cards even though it felt a bit wrong ,i would feel more dissapointed though giving the pot to the worst hand.

Ur answer was very helpful ,thank you :)

GreggPath

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
Re: Cash game PLO - Difficult ruling
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2018, 11:00:50 AM »
I agree with Nick. If you are 100% certain what the four cards in his hand were, award him the pot with a stern warning that next time the ruling might not go in his favor.

Dave Miller

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
  • Lead dealer / rules guru for World Free Poker
    • Poker For Roulette
Re: Cash game PLO - Difficult ruling
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2018, 03:34:11 PM »
I disagree.

I donít object to giving him credit for having 4 cards, but one of the cards needed to win the hand was the card that hit the floor.

On the other hand, did the dealer see the card, FACE UP, as it was sliding off the table?
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown.
But how much does it cost to knock on wood?

Shehu-J

  • TDA Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Cash game PLO - Difficult ruling
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2018, 04:32:23 PM »
I m Possitive that the card that fell off was face up ,anyone who was standing in a 5 meter radious could identify it ,i was standing next to it picked it up and tabled it.
Really my only problem is how often do we announce winning hands with a missing card at showdown. In this situation we have 3 cards identified and 1 missing.


Nick C

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3150
    • http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=557;sa=forumProfile
Re: Cash game PLO - Difficult ruling
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2018, 07:25:44 PM »
Dave,

 You've got to be kidding. You're trying to tell me that you would award the pot to the losing player. Sorry, Dave, Shehu J did the right thing.

 Shehu-J...did the players accept your decision as fair? My guess is yes they did. If I'm correct then you made the right call.

Dave Miller

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 268
  • Lead dealer / rules guru for World Free Poker
    • Poker For Roulette
Re: Cash game PLO - Difficult ruling
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2018, 09:15:15 PM »
Why bother having a rule if youíre not going to enforce it?
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown.
But how much does it cost to knock on wood?

Uniden32

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
  • Tournament Director at the Isle Casino
Re: Cash game PLO - Difficult ruling
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2018, 07:27:34 AM »
Why bother having a rule if you’'re not going to enforce it?

Which rule are you referring to ?

For me, whether the card fell face up or face down is irrelevant.  I want the best hand to win.

We can take the time to suit the deck to ensure that no funny business occurred, and there aren't (2) Ace of Spades, if you're worried about that.

Push the pot to Player 2.
Ralph Brandt
Tournament Coordinator
Isle Casino - Pompano Beach, FL
@uniden32