POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS > Suggestions for New TDA Rules and amendments to existing rules: READ-ONLY ARCHIVES Pre 2019 Summit

Multiple short all-ins, re-opening the bet, minimum amt to raise etc.

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MikeB:
Should the rule for multiple short all-ins / amount to re-open and minimum raise be clarified in the rules and/o Illustration Addendum? This topic is the subject of the following thread:
http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?topic=1477.0

Nick C:
Mike, Please see if this is a valid enough argument to change our raise rules for no limit:

Adam opens post flop 400
Bonnie all-in for 1000
Carl calls 1000
Dave all-in for 700
Eddy all-in for 600
Freddie all-in for 500
George all-in for 600
Helen all-in for 200

I think you see where I'm going. Bonnies' all-in reopens the betting to Adam. All of our prior examples escalate with each all-in. I really think we should consider making a change. I'd like to see: Any short all-in as a meaningless action. Furthermore, in order to reopen a bet to any player not all-in, the amount required to call must at least double that of any player who has already acted on that round.

Anyway, that's what I'd like to see and it would be so much easier to understand. Thanks for listening.

MikeB:
The TDA specifies "the largest bet or raise" which in your example is Bonnie's raise of 600.

None of the other calls or all-in wagers exceed 600 so it's 1000 to Adam to call, or a minimum of 1600 total for him to raise. No change to the rules are needed, but a clarification in the Illustration Addendum wouldn't hurt.

GreggPath:

--- Quote from: MikeB on March 06, 2018, 06:13:16 AM ---The TDA specifies "the largest bet or raise" which in your example is Bonnie's raise of 600.

None of the other calls or all-in wagers exceed 600 so it's 1000 to Adam to call, or a minimum of 1600 total for him to raise. No change to the rules are needed, but a clarification in the Illustration Addendum wouldn't hurt.

--- End quote ---

I disagree that no change to rules are needed. Just my opinion.

Nick C:
Everyone knows how I feel about the raise rules. It's nice to know that I have at least one respected member in agreement that a change is needed. I will give one more suggestion or some reasoning behind my crusade for a change. Let's take a look at the simple raise rules for limit poker.

 Limit poker will have a limit to the number of raises allowed for each street or betting round. Usually 3 or 4 and sometimes more depending on the type of game being played. There are also specific structures to each game. I will use 7-card stud 5 and 10 for this simple explanation. After the initial deal the must bet amount will be 5, with a three-raise limit. On fourth street, the must bet amount will be 5...(unless there happens to be an open pair in which case you may bet 5 or 10). On fifth, through seventh street, the betting reverts to 10. Now let's take a look at the simple rules for raising:

A raise must be at least 50% of the required amount to be considered a raise for the purpose of the three raise limit;
If an all-in is less than 50%...it is not recognized as a raise (This is very important for the point I'm trying to make)
If a Player goes all-in with 50% or more of the required amount to complete the raise, it will be recognized as a full raise and is counted in the number of raises allowed for that round of betting.
Fourth street with no open pair. Adam is high and elects to bet...his wager must be 5 the only other option is if he is all-in with less. Billy calls 5...Carl calls 5...Diane goes all-in for 7...back to Adam...he can only call 2 more.
Fifth street; Adam bets 10 Billy goes all-in for 15 (this is considered a raise) Carl calls 15...(note: If Carl wanted to raise he would have had to go to 25) and Diane is already all-in.Back to Adam...he may fold, call 5 more or raise to 25.

 I know this is getting a little boring and I had no intention of dragging it out quite this long. Bottom line: Limit Poker considers a 50% raise and if No Limit would recognize a 100% requirement to reopen the betting our problem would be solved. I know I have better examples through the years that I have already posted but we've never reached this seriousness for a change before. Thanks for listening and as always your feedback is appreciated.

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