POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS > Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General
Rule 57 "Less than" or "less than or equal to"
Steven:
57: Non-Standard & Unclear Betting
Players use unofficial betting terms and gestures at their own risk. These may be interpreted to mean
other than what the player intended. Also, if a declared bet can reasonably have multiple meanings, it
will be ruled the highest reasonable amount that is less than the pot size before the bet. Ex: NLHE 200-
400 blinds, 4900 in the pot, player declares “I bet five.” With no other clarifying information, the bet is
500; if 5100 in the pot, the bet is 5000. See Rules 2, 3 & 45.
Hi Mike,
IMO
"Less than the pot size" is specified in Rule 57. In addition to 4900 and 5100, I think the example should also mention "5000 in the pot" in which case the bet is still 500 because 5000 would not be less than 5000
Or, should the rule specify "less than or equal to"?
BillM16:
Also, same scenario as described but say the player who declared 5 only has 4000 chips left. Is he all-in?
MikeB:
--- Quote from: Steven on September 01, 2017, 04:04:30 PM ---57: Non-Standard & Unclear Betting
Players use unofficial betting terms and gestures at their own risk. These may be interpreted to mean
other than what the player intended. Also, if a declared bet can reasonably have multiple meanings, it
will be ruled the highest reasonable amount that is less than the pot size before the bet. Ex: NLHE 200-
400 blinds, 4900 in the pot, player declares “I bet five.” With no other clarifying information, the bet is
500; if 5100 in the pot, the bet is 5000. See Rules 2, 3 & 45.
Hi Mike,
IMO
"Less than the pot size" is specified in Rule 57. In addition to 4900 and 5100, I think the example should also mention "5000 in the pot" in which case the bet is still 500 because 5000 would not be less than 5000
Or, should the rule specify "less than or equal to"?
--- End quote ---
Steve: Version 3.0 clarifies this that with 5000 in the pot, "five" is a bet of 5000. Any pot amount greater than or equal to 500 but less than 5000, the bet is 500. Thanks for pointing that out!
MikeB:
--- Quote from: BillM16 on September 01, 2017, 06:58:37 PM ---Also, same scenario as described but say the player who declared 5 only has 4000 chips left. Is he all-in?
--- End quote ---
Bill:
IMO yes, don't see how an exception can be made because it's a bet of all the player's chips. i.e. he has a stack of 5100, it's a bet of 5000, has a stack of 4900 it's a bet of 500. Best interest of the game to keep it consistent at 5000 IMO. However this point should be clarified in 2019.
BillM16:
--- Quote from: MikeB on September 02, 2017, 01:50:35 PM ---
--- Quote from: BillM16 on September 01, 2017, 06:58:37 PM ---Also, same scenario as described but say the player who declared 5 only has 4000 chips left. Is he all-in?
--- End quote ---
Bill:
IMO yes, don't see how an exception can be made because it's a bet of all the player's chips. i.e. he has a stack of 5100, it's a bet of 5000, has a stack of 4900 it's a bet of 500. Best interest of the game to keep it consistent at 5000 IMO. However this point should be clarified in 2019.
--- End quote ---
Mike thanks for the response. A player has two 500 chips and three 1000 chips and says 5. Then, grabs 500 chip to toss in subsequently ... I have a real problem putting the player all-in when there is 5000 in the pot. I think the benefits of consistently applying the previous version of the least amount is the better rule. I'm quite surprised that a majority of attending TDA members voted to approve this change. On the other hand, I will not be surprised if Daniel Negreanu or other notables show up in 2019 to plead for a reversal of this decision.
Regards,
B~
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