Author Topic: Extend the descritpion in 4.Electronic devices  (Read 418 times)

Boris Mauboussin

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 60
Extend the descritpion in 4.Electronic devices
« on: July 18, 2017, 11:30:05 PM »
Hello folks,

(Ok Summit is over, but this remains a suggestion =) )

Current description is the following (2015 Rules)

Quote
4: Electronic Devices and Communication
Players may not talk on a phone at the table. Ring tones, music, etc. should be inaudible to others.
House rules apply to other types of electronic devices and communication.

I am a tech guy, I love all these brand new devices which can do anything, and to be fair, I worked in IT for several years before becoming a poker dealer. I know how all of these things work, what is possible, and how to do it.

Now I spent some more time on events in France I saw a lot of things which could lead to cheating. 99% of the time it is just nothing, but if players wanted to cheat through electronic devices, it would be the exact pattern.

Quote
TL;DR

I would like to ban electronic devices from game area but the fix I'd like to submit is the following.

Quote
4: Electronic Devices and Communication
Players may not talk on a phone at the table. Ring tones, music, lights, etc. should be inaudible and invisible to others. Devices standing in the game area have to be face down while unused
House rules apply to other types of electronic devices and communication.


Let's begin.

First of all, here are the rules on the events I work on :
- Device can't stand on the surface of the table.
- A Player can't use a device while involved in a hand
- A player can't make a voice call at the table (even not involved in a hand)

BUT,

- Device is allowed to stand on the rail (border) of the table as long as it does not cover a part of the table (no blind spots)
- There is no details about screen device being turned on

So here are what I can see from my dealer chair :
1. Players watching a TV show while involved in a hand
2. Players texting during the dealing phase
3. Players showing their screen to another player
4. Device LED flashing
5. Players receiving text messages and notifications while involved in a hand (Device standing on the rail)
6. Players playing online while involved in a hand


And here is what how I think it could be an issue

1. Not really an issue, but player is not paying attention which can disturb the flow of the game. And most of the time he will ask what is the bet to call. (and asks again because he has headphones, but that's another story)

2. Texting players are a curse. They could give details on the previous hand to a teammate at the table, as what was the hand they were holding and avoid the Show one, show all rule. They could also give instruction for the current hand as "If player B goes all-in we call together" or any chip dumping situation "Call my oversize bet, and I will fold on the turn" etc...

3. Again, players can share informations about the game without sharing with all the table. I had this situation between two players yesterday. The first one just folded, and the other one was still involved in the hand.

4. A LED Flashing could be a pre determined signal between players. (Ok, that case is a bit parano´d because someone has to activate something. But everyone having a smartphone already managed to get him silent while it was in his pocket. And spoiler, with a specific application you can determine what your phone does if you press a physical button like the volume up or down)

5. Same as above. But the player could read what he received in a blink of an eye. Moreover, if he is wearing a hat, cap, sunglasses, or anything else what covers his eyes, the dealer might not be aware of the situation.

6. Not really an issue, but the chat system could lead to information sharing.


Now we take a break because all of this was probably enough long to read =)


Repetitive story : When I tell players they can not use a device while involved in the hand some of them show me their screen and say "Im just setting up some music, just watch !"
Which I respond "Sorry Sir, I can't check all players device activities"

Before smartphones, the most common sentence I used to say was "Ante, please" and players were truly sorry
Now it is "Please Sir, No phone with the cards" and players get angry

I really am a tech lover, but I am disgusted by poker becoming a non social game because of electronic devices.

I would like to ban electronic devices from game area but the fix I'd like to submit is the following.

Quote
4: Electronic Devices and Communication
Players may not talk on a phone at the table. Ring tones, music, lights, etc. should be inaudible and invisible to others. Devices standing in the game area have to be face down while unused
House rules apply to other types of electronic devices and communication.


Any thoughts ?

Nick C

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3081
    • http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=557;sa=forumProfile
Re: Extend the descritpion in 4.Electronic devices
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2017, 05:40:18 AM »
Hello Boris,

 My thoughts are very similar to yours. Ban electronic devices at the table.

4: Electronic Devices and Communication
Players may not talk on a phone at the table. Ring tones, music, lights, etc. should be inaudible and invisible to others. Devices standing in the game area have to be face down while unused
House rules apply to other types of electronic devices and communication.
You might even add: Any correspondence or communication between players in the card room is prohibited. Violations will result in surrendering your phone (or electronic device) to the cage until your departure.

I also like what you wrote about the player that keeps asking what the bet is:
1. Not really an issue, but player is not paying attention which can disturb the flow of the game. And most of the time he will ask what is the bet to call. (and asks again because he has headphones, but that's another story)
 
Unfortunately TDA's Accepted Action gives the players no protection at all if the call amount does not match the bet! ::)

Max D

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
Re: Extend the descritpion in 4.Electronic devices
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2017, 08:25:09 AM »
I agree but in a world of technology I don't think we will be able to revert back to the "good old days" :o.  Last time I was in Caesar's they even have installed USB charger bellow the rail on the table, it feels like it is really encouraged to use your device rather than not :(...  Similar at WSOP where they encourage people to watch POKERGO or play online at the same time as you are playing live.

Boris has some good points which  I had not thought about (#3 & #4) and are worrying and it will be interesting to see what other members think.  On a separate note I would love to see a rule (probably needs to be a house rule) about not covering your face above your neck, I am so tired of sunglasses and people chewing on their hoodies... ::)
Max D

Nick C

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3081
    • http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=557;sa=forumProfile
Re: Extend the descritpion in 4.Electronic devices
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2017, 10:58:34 AM »
Hey, Max...wait until they come out with glasses that allow you to see through the backs of the cards...if they haven't already. ;D

I wonder If Daniel has something like that? Sometimes he scares me with his reads! ???

We survived quite well without all the electronics, back in the day. As far as any casino/poker room, allowing players to watch POKERGO, or play online while playing live is very surprising. I wonder how the WSOP cashes in on that deal...hmm?

Max D

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
Re: Extend the descritpion in 4.Electronic devices
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2017, 08:06:23 AM »
Hey, Max...wait until they come out with glasses that allow you to see through the backs of the cards...if they haven't already. ;D

I wonder If Daniel has something like that? Sometimes he scares me with his reads! ???

We survived quite well without all the electronics, back in the day. As far as any casino/poker room, allowing players to watch POKERGO, or play online while playing live is very surprising. I wonder how the WSOP cashes in on that deal...hmm?

Now I just feel old  :(  Why cant people just play poker when seating at the table...  Different generation I guess, they have to multitask :o
Max D

Boris Mauboussin

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 60
Re: Extend the descritpion in 4.Electronic devices
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2017, 03:45:34 AM »
I agree but in a world of technology I don't think we will be able to revert back to the "good old days" :o.

Hey, I'm not that old :p

Back to topic, as dealers have enough things to watch during a hand to ensure integrity of the game, getting an eye on a player's device is a huge watching task. Moreover, it is unethical as they are asked to be discreet (and so, it means not spying on players personnal life)