Author Topic: fouled deck mixed with muck cards in PLO comp  (Read 261 times)

Luca P.

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fouled deck mixed with muck cards in PLO comp
« on: June 28, 2017, 04:29:49 PM »
Hi all,
Another situation in PLO 6 cards.
7 handed, action comes to the turn with only 2 players at this point. There have been actions on the previous streets.
On the turn, player A bet, player B calls.
At this point, dealer put the stub on the table, merging it with the muck cards. He does not shuffle them, but when floor arrived at the table, it happears the deck is pretty messed up.

What do you do in this case?

I personally decided to declare the hand dead, and I reconstructed the pot toi give chips back to the players.

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Nick C

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Re: fouled deck mixed with muck cards in PLO comp
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2017, 06:44:23 PM »
Hi Luca,

 Tough situation for sure. I'm not sure I would include, the players that dropped out prior to the error, into the return of anything. You stated that there was action prior to the turn, so I will assume that there were raises or at least a raise that eliminated some players. Dividing the pot between the two remaining players seems more appropriate, to me.

MikeB

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Re: fouled deck mixed with muck cards in PLO comp
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2017, 01:20:24 AM »
Another situation in PLO 6 cards.
7 handed, action comes to the turn with only 2 players at this point. There have been actions on the previous streets.
On the turn, player A bet, player B calls.
At this point, dealer put the stub on the table, merging it with the muck cards. He does not shuffle them, but when floor arrived at the table, it appears the deck is pretty messed up.

What do you do in this case?

I personally decided to declare the hand dead, and I reconstructed the pot toi give chips back to the players.
Two situations: either I can reasonably identify the stub or not.
A: If I can reasonably identify the stub, even though it's scattered, I'll scramble it, burn and turn.
B: If I can't reasonably identify the stub, I'll scramble the entire muck together, burn and turn

Calling it a dead hand and refunding $$ I'd leave to more unique situations. The law of randomness applies and players accept that law when they buy into a tournament. Sure that others will have a different opinion... this is a "Rule 1" decision. Thanks for the great case!

BROOKS

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Re: fouled deck mixed with muck cards in PLO comp
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2017, 04:35:31 AM »
I agree with Mike, if the stub cannot be identified, it all gets shuffled.
Dealers should be trained to have a habit of dropping the stub where it is always retrievable. Either fanning it on the table after the river is dealt, or keeping it squared on top of the muck, depending on house policy. But it should never be mixed with anything.
I've trained many dealers and told them why it was important -  "at least one time in your life, you'll accidentally drop the stub on the turn"
It's never a big deal when the stub is always easily identified.

Nick C

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Re: fouled deck mixed with muck cards in PLO comp
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2017, 06:03:29 AM »
In the original post the deck was "pretty messed up." In a perfect situation, where the stub is identifiable, the solution is easier to fix. I'm not a fan of mixing the stub with the muck (after action has progressed beyond a complete betting round) before a reshuffle. I prefer other options..such as a split between the remaining players.