Author Topic: Both players left in the hand, had the winning hand, with the ace of clubs?  (Read 3665 times)

patiolanterns

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After the hand went all the way to the showdown, with just 2 players left in the hand, they both turned over the nut flush with an ace of clubs?
How is this ruled?
I tried looking further into the forum, but could not find the answer?
I beleive it was in the old forum from last year.
There was a small argument that one player had AJ clubs, and the Jack would have given him the higher flush (taking the ace out of play), I told the TD that both cards have to be in play, you can not win a hand with only one (Valid) card?
I had the TD call me at home to get the ruling, caught me off gaurd, but I ruled that the pot be split between the 2 players, now, if there had been 3 players, I would probably have ruled both their hands dead, and given the pot to the third player?
Am I wrong here?
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Just to recap, there were 2 ace of clubs in the deck, 2 players went to the showdown with the nut flush, turning over the ace of clubs, who wins the pot?

Thank You

MikeB

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Hi Patio. Unless you have absolute 100% reason to know that one of the players "sneaked in" one of the aces, then you have a fouled deck situation. There's no specific TDA remedy for this, and the House Rules for fouled deck will apply. Most often the House will either refund all bets to all players with money in the pot or split between the players still in the hand at the time of the discovery.  You definitely would not rule the two hands with the Ace of Clubs dead and award to the 3rd hand because the aces were both playing in good faith with a fouled deck the house provided.

pokerfish

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Normal rules for a fouled deck are to return ALL bets and replay the hand... everyone who put money into the pot gets it back and the hand starts over again with the repost of the blinds....
Jan Fisher
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Stuart Murray

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RROP Rules on Irregularities are attached below:

3. If a card with a different color back appears during a hand, all action is void and all chips in the pot are returned to the respective bettors. If a card with a different color back is discovered in the stub, all action stands.
4. If two cards of the same rank and suit are found, all action is void, and all chips in the pot are returned to the players who wagered them (subject to next rule).
5. A player who knows the deck is defective has an obligation to point this out. If such a player instead tries to win a pot by taking aggressive action (trying for a freeroll), the player may lose the right to a refund, and the chips may be required to stay in the pot for the next deal.


Regards
Stuart
Stuart Murray
The Nuts Poker League
South Scotland &
National Tournament Director

Martin L. Waller

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Patiolanterns,
 
I always wonder how this type of incident happens. With dealers inspecting decks before each game and usually about every hour I never understand how this can happen.
With that said and knowing that it still does happen, you have to return chips to all players involved in the hand.
I hope that the Floor was called when the Aces were found so he/she can assist in the reconstruction of the hand so the chips get back to the proper players.

Good game,
Martin   

pokerfish

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unfortunately, most dealers are very lax about counting down the stub and even in doing that, 52 cards could still be there with a duplicate and another missing. The shuffle machine helps, for sure, as I "think" it identifies dupes? Not sure.... most common is a card from the "other" deck getting out of the well and being in the game a while. Most dealers do NOT count down the stub as they are supposed to.... and I love the phony count in a stud game but don't even get me started on that!
Jan Fisher
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http://www.cardplayercruises.com

Georg

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In my experience with shuffling machines, they only count the cards. No duplicates, no back color check.

Georg