LIVE CASH GAME POKER RULES DISCUSSION > Live Cash Game Rules Questions

straddle

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Nick C:
Dave,

 How did you get lost on this one? The question is: Would you allow someone to straddle if the straddle amount put them all in? My answer is yes!

Dave Miller:

--- Quote from: Dave Miller on January 30, 2017, 06:23:52 AM ---
--- Quote from: Nick C on January 27, 2017, 03:26:25 PM ---Besides, how can we tell that player that he's not allowed to get maximum chips into the pot if he chooses?
--- End quote ---
You totally lost me on that one. He's all-in.
--- End quote ---
At what point do you think I am not allowing the player to get max chips in?

Of course I allow the player to go all in.

I simply disagree with calling it a straddle, since, by definition, a straddle means there is potential future action. Once a player is all in, he has no more options, so why call it a straddle?

BROOKS:
Thank you Dave. This is exactly how I feel.
If we call it a straddle, the "straddler" should be able to get an option to raise. Since he is all in and cannot raise, he isn't really straddling, he is all in blind.
Not sure if Nick realizes that this makes a difference in a limit game, like I mentioned, because it allows the betting round to go 5 bets rather than the standard 4 bets when there isn't a straddle.
If the "straddler" cannot use his "option" it should not be a straddle.

Nick C:
First of all, the odds on a player having the exact amount necessary for a straddle are remote. I disagree with both of you because you are restricting the same action from any player that might have slightly more than the straddle, but not enough to complete a full raise. Example: What if the UTG player had 25 instead of 20...would you allow a straddle?  If so, why? What's the difference?

 A straddle is nothing more than a "blind raise" before cards are dealt. I've never seen anything in writing that insists that a straddle can only be executed if that player can reopen raising when the bet returns to him. You can't look at your cards and then straddle...so I see no reason for preventing others from raising, if they desire.

Dave Miller:

--- Quote from: Nick C on February 02, 2017, 09:23:46 AM ---First of all, the odds on a player having the exact amount necessary for a straddle are remote. I disagree with both of you because you are restricting the same action from any player that might have slightly more than the straddle, but not enough to complete a full raise. Example: What if the UTG player had 25 instead of 20...would you allow a straddle?  If so, why? What's the difference?

 A straddle is nothing more than a "blind raise" before cards are dealt. I've never seen anything in writing that insists that a straddle can only be executed if that player can reopen raising when the bet returns to him. You can't look at your cards and then straddle...so I see no reason for preventing others from raising, if they desire.

--- End quote ---
Nick -

I agree with your point that the chance of someone having exactly 2 big blinds under the gun are remote, and even more remote that he'd chose to say "Straddle" rather than "Raise".

Yes, a straddle is nothing more than a blind raise, with the opportunity to re-raise.

My point is, if he does not have additional chips to exercise that opportunity to re-raise, then his blind raise is just that - a raise, not a straddle.


Some of your other points are just completely wrong.

How does our decision restrict others who may have slightly more than 2 big blinds?

If he has 25 instead of 20? Yep, allow a straddle. Sure, it defies good strategy, but certainly valid. The fact that such a partial re-raise would not re-open the raise opportunity to those that called is irrelevant.

Prevent others from raising? How does the straddle prevent others from raising?


You've never seen anything that insists that a straddle can only be executed if that player can re-open raising when the bet returns to him? Me neither. That's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that to straddle, the player must have at least one chip behind, so he has an option to raise, even if that raise is too small to re-open betting to players that merely called the straddle.

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