Author Topic: Illustrations needed for Rule 40-A, Action Out of Turn  (Read 298 times)

MikeB

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Illustrations needed for Rule 40-A, Action Out of Turn
« on: June 15, 2017, 10:43:36 PM »
2015 Rules have Illustrations for Rule 40-B, but not 40-A.

BillM16

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Re: Illustrations needed for Rule 40-A, Action Out of Turn
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2017, 11:32:24 AM »
40:  Action Out of Turn (OOT)
A: Any action out of turn (check, call, or raise) is subject to penalty and is binding if action to the OOT player does not change.  A check, call or fold by the rightful player does not change action. If action changes, the OOT action is not binding; any bet or raise is returned to the OOT player who has all options including: calling, raising, or folding. An OOT fold is binding.

Example 1: Alice, Bobby and Charlie remain.  Alice checks.  Charlie quickly announces a bet of 300 before Bobby has a chance to act.  Action is stopped to allow Bobby to act. Bobby may check or bet.  Bobby cannot fold or call as he is not facing a bet.  If Bobby checks then Charlie’s bet is binding.  If Bobby bets then Charlie’s bet can be returned to Charlie who may then fold, call Bobby’s bet or raise.

Example 2: Alice, Bobby and Charlie remain.  Alice bets 100.  Charlie quickly announces a raise to 300 before Bobby has a chance to act.  Action is stopped to allow Bobby to act. Bobby cannot check as he is facing Alice’s bet, so Bobby may fold, call, or raise.  If Bobby folds or calls then Charlie’s raise is binding.  If Bobby raises then Charlie’s bet can be returned to Charlie who may then fold, call Bobby’s bet or raise.

B: A player skipped by OOT action must defend his right to act. If there is reasonable time and the skipped player does not speak up before substantial action (Rule 35) OOT occurs to his left, the OOT action is binding. The floor will rule on how to treat the skipped hand. See Illustration Addendum.

Example 1:  Alice is SB for 100, Bobby is BB for 200, Charlie is UTG and makes it 600. Daniel, in seat 4, is skipped when Erik, in seat 5, calls 600 Out-Of-Turn.  Frank, in seat 6, thinks for a moment then folds. There are now two players, Erik and Frank, who have acted with chips involved to the left of Daniel, who was skipped. Two players with chips qualifies as substantial action (Rule 35). Also, Daniel has had reasonable time to speak up and bring it to the dealer’s attention that he has been skipped. The OOT call by Erik is now binding due to substantial action OOT, and the OOT fold by Frank is also binding (Rule 53). The floor is called to make a decision on the fate of Daniel’s hand.

Example 2: Alice, Bobby, Charlie and Erik remain to see the turn. After the dealer tables the turn card, Alice opens betting for 600. Bobby is skipped when Charlie checks and Erik calls 600 OOT. The floor is called to make a decision on the fate of Bobby’s hand.




Gabriel Diaz Siqueira

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Re: Illustrations needed for Rule 40-A, Action Out of Turn
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2017, 04:32:49 PM »
2015 Rules have Illustrations for Rule 40-B, but not 40-A.

Also, if I may say so, the second example of the rule 40-B illustrations have a problem, since it begins by saying that 3 players remain to see the turn, but than describes action for seats 3, 4, 5 and 6, as follows:

"Example 2: NLHE, blinds 100-200. Three players remain to see the turn. After the dealer tables the turn card, the UTG (Seat 3) opens betting for 600. Seat 4 is skipped when Seat 5 checks and Seat 6 calls 600 OOT. The floor is called to make a decision on the fate of Seat 4’s hand."

MikeB

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Re: Illustrations needed for Rule 40-A, Action Out of Turn
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2017, 09:12:03 PM »
2015 Rules have Illustrations for Rule 40-B, but not 40-A.

Also, if I may say so, the second example of the rule 40-B illustrations have a problem, since it begins by saying that 3 players remain to see the turn, but than describes action for seats 3, 4, 5 and 6, as follows:

"Example 2: NLHE, blinds 100-200. Three players remain to see the turn. After the dealer tables the turn card, the UTG (Seat 3) opens betting for 600. Seat 4 is skipped when Seat 5 checks and Seat 6 calls 600 OOT. The floor is called to make a decision on the fate of Seat 4’s hand."
Great catch Gabe... should be "Four players remain...." will change in the 2017 Rules.