Author Topic: Unreasonable fold?  (Read 865 times)

alex

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Unreasonable fold?
« on: January 09, 2017, 06:38:24 PM »
Hi all.
This situation occurred at a final table of a NLHE tournament with 4 players left in the game.
Blinds 20k/40k, UTG went all-in with a total bet of 85k next player fold and The SB fold.
The player at the big-blind ( his stack was 290k)took his time to think then he throw his hand into the muck.
this is when the player at the dealer-botton objected and claim that it's a soft play from the player at the big bling and that he should be forced to call the 85k as he only has to put 45k more (one big blind).

Can we force a player to call this amount of bet.
 Thank you all.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 06:53:06 PM by alex »

BillM16

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Re: Unreasonable fold?
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2017, 07:02:24 PM »
No, we cannot force a player to make a call that requires them to put more chips into the pot.  Not calling a bet could be considered soft play if that player is holding the absolute nuts.  Similarly, not raising a bet can be consider soft play when the player is last to act and holding the absolute nuts.  Soft play is a form of cheating that usually involves collusion between two players.  Rules 64 and 66 provides for penalties for soft play.



« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 07:04:45 PM by BillM16 »

Dave Miller

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Re: Unreasonable fold?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2017, 07:43:26 PM »
Only one big blind?

That's irrelevant. You can't force a player to put in even one small chip.

And if you really want to use the one big blind argument, what about the fact that he only has 6.4 big blinds total? I mean, force him to put in 15% of his stack? No way.
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Max D

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Re: Unreasonable fold?
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2017, 11:32:29 PM »
Agree with Dave and Bill, can't force a player to put more money in a pot preflop, absolut nuts pre-flop could be crushed post flop...
Max D

BillM16

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Re: Unreasonable fold?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2017, 07:45:11 AM »
Agree with Dave and Bill, can't force a player to put more money in a pot preflop, absolut nuts pre-flop could be crushed post flop...

Hi Max,

My definition of the absolute nuts is a hand that cannot be beat under any circumstances.  So, to your point, no hand is the absolute nuts preflop. 

Regards,
B~

GreggPath

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Re: Unreasonable fold?
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2017, 08:18:37 AM »
Hi all.
This situation occurred at a final table of a NLHE tournament with 4 players left in the game.
Blinds 20k/40k, UTG went all-in with a total bet of 85k next player fold and The SB fold.
The player at the big-blind ( his stack was 290k)took his time to think then he throw his hand into the muck.
this is when the player at the dealer-botton objected and claim that it's a soft play from the player at the big bling and that he should be forced to call the 85k as he only has to put 45k more (one big blind).

Can we force a player to call this amount of bet.
 Thank you all.

Is this a trick question? Of course you can not force a call there. The amount to call is more than a full raise. Would you ask this question if UTG only raised to 85k instead of going all in for the amount? Even if the all-in was only 1 more, you can never force a player to put chips in the pot. You say he "only" has to put 45k more in. That a substantial amount, especially since you could be doubling up the all-in player.

Max D

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Re: Unreasonable fold?
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2017, 01:24:19 PM »
Agree with Dave and Bill, can't force a player to put more money in a pot preflop, absolut nuts pre-flop could be crushed post flop...

Hi Max,

My definition of the absolute nuts is a hand that cannot be beat under any circumstances.  So, to your point, no hand is the absolute nuts preflop. 

Regards,
B~

Agreed  :)
Max D

Nick C

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Re: Unreasonable fold?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2017, 05:47:15 PM »
Wow...we all agree ;D