Author Topic: Abandoned / forfeited stack at shootout tournament: remove or leave?  (Read 804 times)

MikeB

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Recent question from Guillaume Gleize raises the issue of how abandoned chip stack rules might apply to a shootout tournament. For example, TDA 66-D says chips of a disqualified player will be removed from play. But what if it's a shootout event, does that put the eventual winner of that table at a significant disadvantage?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 03:25:11 PM by MikeB »

GreggPath

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Re: Abandoned stack at shootout tournament: remove or leave?
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2016, 01:28:20 PM »
IMO, there's no question. An absent player who has paid for his/her chips has a right for his/her chips to be played. Unless I'm forgetting a rule that says otherwise, that player still has an opportunity to cash, correct? You take their chips off the table, you take away their opportunity to cash. Just take the blinds out as you would for someone just is in the men's/women's room.

MikeB

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Re: Abandoned / forfeited stack at shootout tournament: remove or leave?
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2016, 03:27:02 PM »
IMO, there's no question. An absent player who has paid for his/her chips has a right for his/her chips to be played. Unless I'm forgetting a rule that says otherwise, that player still has an opportunity to cash, correct?

But what if you 100% know they aren't coming back... either disqualified or otherwise not returning... if disqualified do you take the chips away as TDA 66 states for a shootout style event? If so, that absolutely guarantees the winner of that table will have fewer chips when moving to the next shootout level.

Dave Miller

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Re: Abandoned / forfeited stack at shootout tournament: remove or leave?
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2016, 07:04:10 PM »
I'm not sure why the tournament format matters.

But I agree that since the player paid for his seat, unless he is disqualified or specifically states that he forfeits, then the stack should play out.

If the absent player eventually cashes, lock up his winnings the same way you'd bag the chips of an absent cash player.

If he never returns to inquire, do whatever you'd do with that cash player that never came in for his bagged chips, or unclaimed slot TITOs.
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BROOKS

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Re: Abandoned / forfeited stack at shootout tournament: remove or leave?
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2016, 12:51:11 AM »

But what if you 100% know they aren't coming back... either disqualified or otherwise not returning... if disqualified do you take the chips away as TDA 66 states for a shootout style event? If so, that absolutely guarantees the winner of that table will have fewer chips when moving to the next shootout level.

Mike makes a great point here. Obviously if they aren't disqualified, just absent, the stack remains and gets blinded out. But what if they are disqualified, for whatever reason. In a shootout tournament those chips are crucial. As each person is to win their table and move on to the next round - bringing their chips with them. If you remove a disqualified persons stack, the winner of that table will have less chips than everyone else who won their table (they should all have the same stacks)
I would say those chips need to stay

... Or....

Remove the disqualified stack, and after there is a winner for that table, his chip stack is topped up to match everyone else that won their tables?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 12:53:50 AM by BROOKS »

Uniden32

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Re: Abandoned / forfeited stack at shootout tournament: remove or leave?
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2016, 09:25:51 AM »
You guys are making this more complicated than it needs to be.

  • In any tournament, a player's chips are being blinded off when absent.  It would have to be a unique situation and last resort for me to remove someone's chips from play.
  • In a normal tournament, a disqualified player's chips are removed from play.
  • In a shootout tournament, I'm not actually "bagging" or having the player keep any chips.  They're receiving a new setup at the next table (round), thereby alleviating the issue with a player's chips being removed when DQ'd in the previous rounds.
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