LIVE CASH GAME POKER RULES DISCUSSION > Live Cash Game Rules Questions

Extra cards found in muck

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Dave Miller:

--- Quote from: Uniden32 on October 28, 2016, 10:51:52 AM ---I would NEVER count a deck at the table to determine if I was going to keep the hand live, you'd just be opening yourself up to too many questions from the players.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure how that would open you up - unless the total wasn't 52...

Nick C:
Dave,

 What happens when you count down the deck and realise that there are only 49 cards, or 50, or 53? Refund all bets...search the players...call security. Counting the deck is something that should be done after the hand is played out. Putting the "spotlight" on a holdout artist, or a "cheat" is not a good way to promote your cardroom.

 Check your cameras, speak with players privately and by all means insist that dealers count the deck on a regular basis. I remember an incident that occurred a few years ago, in a local casino, when cards were discovered under the table on several occasions. Management was so outraged that they insisted the dealers count the deck stub every hand! An over-kill for sure. However, a random check at least once per dealer down could be enough to discourage a devious player from holding out any cards or "ditching" a card or two knowing that his money will be refunded on a losing hand.

 Changing the deck randomly is another deterrent. Any player looking for an edge by holding an ace or two, will have a tough time using his redback aces when the blue deck is brought in for the next hand.

 Some ideas that might send those unwanted players to another cardroom.

Dave Miller:

--- Quote from: Nick C on October 30, 2016, 07:54:31 AM ---Dave,
 What happens when you count down the deck and realise that there are only 49 cards, or 50, or 53? Refund all bets...search the players...call security. Counting the deck is something that should be done after the hand is played out. Putting the "spotlight" on a holdout artist, or a "cheat" is not a good way to promote your cardroom.
--- End quote ---
What would YOU do if you found the deck had more or less than 52 cards? Play the hand out and simply put in a new deck for the next hand? Wouldn't the players want to know why they were playing with a fouled deck?

If there is an issue that would ultimately require you to unravel a hand, why wouldn't you want to stop action immediately to check if the issue exists?

"Spotlight a cheat"? Why wouldn't you? How does identifying a cheater and kicking them out of the room do anything other than make the other players more comfortable about playing there?



For the record, I deal, and act as TD, for a pub league. But we try to follow TDA/Casino rules as closely as possible.

Also, I have been at a cash table in a casino where a similar situation happened. After the hand was over, pot pushed and rake dropped, it was discovered that the cut card was in the shuffler - with a green light, and the card at the bottom of the stub was a card from the other deck. The floor called the hand dead due to a misdeal and unraveled the action, and returned the bets. Although I disagreed with the decision, I later learned that it was the correct thing to do.

Nick C:
Sorry Dave, I stand by my prior post. Of course you want to "catch a cheat" but I don't agree with your method. As far as the automatic shuffler situation you described, I could agree with a misdeal but that would  depend on when it were discovered.

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