Author Topic: Showdown - hand mucked then retrieved again  (Read 1146 times)

Luca P.

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Showdown - hand mucked then retrieved again
« on: July 12, 2016, 12:47:27 PM »
Hi guys, situation in a competition:
On the river, two players.
Player A bet 1.500, player B raises 3.000.
Player A then decided to call, putting another 1.500 aprox 10cm from the his previous bet, and threw face up his cards.
Player B thought that A folded, and threw his cards, touching the muck, then realized the opponent folded, and took his cards back, showing the nuts (not the absolute nuts).

Who do you award the pot?
I personally awarded the pot to player B that got the nuts
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GreggPath

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Re: Showdown - hand mucked then retrieved again
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2016, 01:14:04 PM »
Hi guys, situation in a competition:
On the river, two players.
Player A bet 1.500, player B raises 3.000.
Player A then decided to call, putting another 1.500 aprox 10cm from the his previous bet, and threw face up his cards.
Player B thought that A folded, and threw his cards, touching the muck, then realized the opponent folded, and took his cards back, showing the nuts (not the absolute nuts).

Who do you award the pot?
I personally awarded the pot to player B that got the nuts

If the cards are easily identifiable, he can table the hand and take the pot. If there's any question as to which cards were his in the muck, his hand is dead and Player A takes the pot.

Rule 14:
Quote
Discarding non-tabled cards face down does not automatically kill them; a player may change his mind
and table his cards if they remain 100% identifiable. Cards are killed by the dealer when pushed into
the muck.

Max D

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Re: Showdown - hand mucked then retrieved again
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2016, 02:15:38 PM »
I agree with Rule 14, since the card were retrievable player B gets the pot.  I also remember that only the dealer can kill a hand (unless the cards get mixed in the muck).

Max
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Nick C

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Re: Showdown - hand mucked then retrieved again
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2016, 07:20:29 AM »
I agree with Gregg and Max. I always look at the situation and put myself in the dealer's position. Dissecting Luca's question a little more raises another issue that creates problems more than I'd like. "Player A bet 1500 Player B raises 3000." That would indicate a total wager of 4500...I know we have a rule on the books that reads:43 B) ...."declaring raise and the amount is the total bet"....

 Trying to break down these situations will always create confusion. i.e. Player A bets 1500...Player B says "raise, 3000 more" Do you allow Player B his (intentional) amount to total 4500? Or are we that technical on these raise rules?

 One other mention would be the dealer. In an ideal situation, the dealer would recognize the mistake about to be made by Player B and prevent his cards from hitting the muck. Problem solved. However, what if the dealer also thought that Player A folded? If I were dealing, I still would prevent B from mucking until I killed Player A's hand. Especially when we consider that Player B was in for all bets.

 Luca, I'd also like to point out that your original question needs a slight correction. You wrote: "Player B thought Player A folded, and threw his cards, touching the muck, then realized the opponent folded (I believe you meant to say, called)...."
Not trying to be too critical, I know I've made my share of mistakes on a regular basis. ;D Just trying to explain the question so others might participate in this important discussion.

Max D

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Re: Showdown - hand mucked then retrieved again
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2016, 10:27:32 AM »
When I originally read the post I was wondering about the raise, but from the rest of the post it looked like Luca meant "raise TO" $3000, not raise $3000 to $4,500.  In this case it wasn't a problem since the focus was really on the "lividity" of the hand but i understand what Nick meant when we have so many posts were prepositions are so important.

Max
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 01:29:37 PM by Max D »
Max D

Luca P.

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Re: Showdown - hand mucked then retrieved again
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2016, 11:53:39 AM »
Thank you gentlemen.  :)
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