Seminole Hard Rock satellite situation

[Martin Roy TD]

Hi Guys,

What are your thought on the situation with Michael Dentale yesterday folding his big bling near the bubble on a Satellite with the other player All in for less then the Big Blind ? The player in the big blind knows the player who was All in. I think the blind was 3k-6k and the All In for 4k.

1- What you will do ?

Thanks

[chet]

Certainly deserves some looking into.  But not having seen the situation and your post does not provide some information I would need to make a decision. 

Where in the event are we?

Do these two know each other?

Is it possible that Michael just made a mistake?

It would appear that something untoward happened, but I don't have enough to go on. 

My initial reaction is that Michael would need to provide a really substantial justification for that action, otherwise a penalty is justified.

Chet

[Martin Roy TD]

Certainly deserves some looking into.  But not having seen the situation and your post does not provide some information I would need to make a decision. 

Where in the event are we?

Do these two know each other?

Is it possible that Michael just made a mistake?

It would appear that something untoward happened, but I don't have enough to go on. 

My initial reaction is that Michael would need to provide a really substantial justification for that action, otherwise a penalty is justified.

Chet

1- Near the Bubble
2- Yes they are friends.

It was the first hand after coming back from a break

[BillM16]

Check out Jason Wheeler's post (one of the remaining 10 players) on 2+2 here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip-sponsored-online-poker-report/controversy-final-table-shrpo-25k-satty-allegations-colluding-cheating-1605254/

[Nick C]

If I understand your question, the Big Blind should not have been allowed to fold because of the all-in.

[Max D]

Thanks Bill for the link it is a good summary of what happened (at least from one side).  The TD did force them to play the hand (they retrieved the card), Dentale did end up with penalties twice, but for inappropriate behavior not for collusion.
I really recommend reading the link Bill put up, it is very interesting to see how the whole thing escalated and adds a lot more detail to the original question. 

Max

[Max D]

To get both side of the story here is Dentale's response to Jason Wheeler:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1soj5lb

[BillM16]

Thanks Max for the link.  I knew there had to be another side to the story and I enjoyed reading Dentale's rebuttal.

[Max D]

You're welcome Bill.   Our group always asks for more information, so that should help, we have two side of story now...

[Nick C]

 I have to say that I was surprised that the situation escalated the way it did. If I were working the floor, the first "F bomb" would have been enough. The action stops...and the guilty party is removed from the cardroom for a serious cool-down period, and a serious warning. The poker table is no place for an intoxicated patron. A warning, followed by a penalty, and in some extreme situations, a vacation from the poker room.

 Believe me, you don't need those players for a successful card room...they usually keep more players away than they attract.

[Martin Roy TD]

I have to say that I was surprised that the situation escalated the way it did. If I were working the floor, the first "F bomb" would have been enough. The action stops...and the guilty party is removed from the cardroom for a serious cool-down period, and a serious warning. The poker table is no place for an intoxicated patron. A warning, followed by a penalty, and in some extreme situations, a vacation from the poker room.

 Believe me, you don't need those players for a successful card room...they usually keep more players away than they attract.

100% Agree

[Max D]

Definitely agree it sounded like it was way out of control.

[MikeB]

Setting aside the issue of the F-bombs and poor behavior, just on the subject of the short all-in, as soon as that happened betting action was complete. The gentleman had no option to "fold" at that point. Both hands should have been tabled and then the remaining board cards ran out...

The second issue is the retrieval. This is entirely TD discretion because you have 2 hands touching or fully in the muck. The dealer was "99% sure" of which the 4 cards were but we had to ask the players to ID their cards, always dicey. There's enough here for a ruling either way, IMO, as to the retrievability of the cards. And if they are put in play, this is about as thin as you can get and still retrieve them (again, just MO).

Thanks Martin for raising a very interesting case!