Author Topic: Player has heartattack & leaves, how to handle? (HPT MainEvent CardPlayerCruise)  (Read 7025 times)

Uniden32

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My friend posted this scenario on Facebook, and I thought I would share it with everyone here:

$1,100 HPT Main Event on the cruise ship.  Day 3, 17 players remain, top 12 get paid.

His post below:

During an excursion in Cozumel, one of the players still left suffered a heart attack.  Thankfully he was expected to pull through (as of right now he made a full recover and is on his way home) but he was going to be staying on the island in the hospital until his condition improved.

His stack was 130k (average was 200k), with 5k BB and 50 minute levels - a very unlikely stack to cash wile being blinded off - especially if his stack ended up on the 6 handed table closer to the bubble.

Given that we know he isn't coming back, is there any argument for making a decision other than just blinding the stack off ?  If we decide to blind the stack off, do we make any sort of conscious consideration to moving the stack once or more than once to even out the changes it causes to the event ?


I thought this to be a unique and interesting situation, I'll hold off my response until later as well as what was ultimately done.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 03:57:35 PM by MikeB »
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chet

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Since the player did not abandon his chips/seat voluntarily and was not disqualified, I would do the following:

A.  If there is ANY chance that player might make the money, I would leave the chips in play and blind them off. 

B.  As soon as it is clear he will NOT make the money, remove any remaining chips from play.

There was a discussion about this or a similar topic recently, but I cannot find it.

Chet

Dave Miller

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Whether or not the player has a chance to make it into the money, is not relevant.  Besides, if you are unsure if he'll make it, how do you make that decision?

I say, if the player sat in and played at least one hand, then the stack should stay in until it is blinded off.

If the player is a no-show, then the stack should be blinded off, but removed at the end of the buy-in period. (Is there a limit to how long a paid for stack stays in?)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 03:18:51 AM by Dave Miller »
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown.
But how much does it cost to knock on wood?

Uniden32

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Dave,

This was Day 3 of the tournament, 98 players started, 17 (including the player that couldn't return) were coming back for Day 3. 

This wasn't at the start of a tournament, nor during the registration period.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 08:27:17 AM by Uniden32 »
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Max D

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I agree with Dave and Chet that the player should be blinded out and if he makes the money great for him.

I did find an interesting rule in the HPT (home poker tournament)rule book which states: " Any player who does not return within 20 minutes forfeits all his remaining chips".   It sounds more like a house rule put in place to make people come back from breaks within a reasonable amount of time.

Beside a house/tournament rule I am wondering if there is a good argument for removing the chips from play?  Anyone?

Max

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Uniden32

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Ok, here is what was ultimately decided:

The owner of the cruise company addressed everyone explaining that the rule in this situation is that the stack is blinded out, and there was also some last minute rumbling about moving the stack between tables so it was fair, but this was more so an idea than the intended ruling.

Then they made a suggestion to take $1,100 out of the prize pool, and only do this if it was unanimous. I really dislike putting being the bad
guy on the players as a rule (like asking if anyone cares if someone short buys, no one wants to be the asshole). So they started asking if anyone disagrees, and I suggested an anonymous poll instead. Everyone gets a red card and black card, they put red in the middle if they agree. To their credit, all of the players threw in a red card and agreed to the refund.


In the end, I like that they talked to the players remaining.
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Brian Vickers

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I really like the anonymous vote to decide to give player a refund in this scenario.  A man has suffered a heart attack and is unable to continue through no choice of his own.  It is very much in the spirit of fairness, sportsmanship, and general good will for the players to voluntarily show that act of kindness to the player who was, for all intents and purposes, their competitor (and dare I say "enemy"?) mere moments before.  Great job by those players.

If no such agreements was made, then I believe those chips should be blinded out to the felt.  I've seen dead stacks make the money a few times because players got involved in big pots and did not play optimum strategy.  For all we know he would have blinded his way to a decent finish if enough players get AA vs. KK coolers.

Dave Miller

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I also applaud the selflessness of those players.

But I would rule that the stack stays in and is blinded out. Also that this deal only occur if he doesn't otherwise cash.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown.
But how much does it cost to knock on wood?

Max D

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Well thought out ruling in a very unique situation, great response from the other players.  As Dave and Brian stated if no agreement was reached blinding the player out is the right approach.
Max D
Less talking, more dealing.

Uniden32

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I'm with Brian, I applaud the decision to get the remaining players involved.

I don't know that I would have required a unanimous decision by the players, more than likely a majority decision for me would have been sufficient.

Great job by the players and staff alike.
Ralph Brandt
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Terence Bertault

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Hi guys,

I think you only can blind out this player ...

Great decision of staff, company and players to give at minimum his buy-in back !

chet

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I applaud the decision to get the players involved, but consider this:

This was a HPT event.  The field isn't that large compared to some events such as are held bu the WSOP, etc.  For an event with several hundred or thousand entrants, I believe it is totally impractical to base the decision on player input.  I think it much better to develop a house rule that covers what is to be done in the event a player leaves because of illness or ????  I remember an event I played in years ago, where a player in the middle of the tournament got a phone call that his child had been in an auto accident and was killed.  Is that treated the same as a heart attack?  To the extent possible and practical, the rule should cover all possibilities.

A couple of things to consider when developing such a rule:

1.  If you refund the entry, what do you do with the remaining chips?  It doesn't seem right to me to leave them in play.
2.  If you don't refund the entry, same question. 

Chet