All-in or Call?

[BillM16]

I agree that the "technical rules" say that player C's action was a call of 1200.  However, it is a extremely rare for a player with less than 2 BBs left in his stack to push his last two chips into the pot silently, while UTG, expecting to receive change for less that than a single BB, while knowing that he will be forced to be truly all-in the very next hand, should he lose this hand.  Sure, it could happen if the player was a novice - but would the novice know that his silent action should be interpreted as a call given the "technical rules?"  It's getting harder to believe.

Now, player D calls 2000.  The original post (OP) doesn't tell us "how" player D made the call.  Was it verbal?  Did it involve 4x500 in chips?  In any case, if it was clearly meant as a call of 2000, then player C MUST speak up at that point to clarify his action as being only a call of 1200.  Otherwise, I'm using Rule #1 to override the "technical rules" as noted above.

Regards,
B~

[Nick C]

Bill,

 What happened since your previous post? This is what you wrote: "Player C is all-in and I would never allow this obvious attempt at angle-shooting to be rewarded with a decision to a call.  Everyone knows that pushing all of your chips into the pot is an all-in bet unless you CLEARLY declare otherwise.  The fact that he waited to see how many callers he had is also a dead giveaway!"

 It's not up to the "floor" to determine how he "should" have played his hand, based on your observation...You wrote:"I agree that the "technical rules" say that player C's action was a call of 1200.  However, it is a extremely rare for a player with less than 2 BBs left in his stack to push his last two chips into the pot silently, while UTG, expecting to receive change for less that than a single BB, while knowing that he will be forced to be truly all-in the very next hand, should he lose this hand."

Players need to clear-up their bets.

[Dave Miller]

...  However, it is a extremely rare for a player with less than 2 BBs left in his stack to push his last two chips into the pot silently, while UTG, expecting to receive change for less that than a single BB, while knowing that he will be forced to be truly all-in the very next hand, should he lose this hand.  Sure, it could happen if the player was a novice...

I disagree.

The short stack player calls, hoping there would be no raise. Perhaps it is a scary board any nobody bets. He could see the hand thru the river, lose, and still have chips for one more hand. I've seen it happen.

Oh, sure, only a complete novice would fold once there is a pre-flop raise. But a sharp player would do what he can to reduce the number of other players in the hand - and that includes giving Player D the option to fold for 1200 instead of 2000.

[BillM16]

Nick, I know what I wrote and my opinion remains the same. I didn't said anything close to "the floor should determine how he should play his hand." 

[Dave Miller]

Thanks to a new comment in an old thread, I fond this comment, which seems contract some of Nick's comments in this thread.

...I don't like any rule that penalizes a player (Big Blind or not) for not putting more chips into the pot if they don't want to...

While I realize it would be pretty stupid for Player C to fold, stupider things have happened.

But more to the point, your earlier comments in this thread is essentially forcing Player C to be all in before he decides to do it himself. And that is in contradiction to the comment I quoted.

[pastor]

Suppose that this situation has happened in the bubble when player C hears All-in from the other table. I think that player C would requested call 1200 even with two AA in a hand.

[Nick C]

Pastor,

 Players must wait for clear bets from players before acting. Accepted Action,  ...wait until the bettor completes his wager before reacting.

Dave,

 If you are going to quote me, at least complete my statement and explain the context in which it was intended. That quote was in response to a question about a rule that insists the BB must call (can not fold) when all others have folded and the BB is facing a minimal raise equal to 2.5 big blinds or less!  Personally, I don't care if an all-in raise is one tenth of one percent of my BB...if I don't want to call, I'll fold!

[Dave Miller]

Nick -

Taking partial quotes as I do is not intended to change the meaning of the content, but to help focus upon what I am replying to.

I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.

That said, my comment stands, even within the full context of what you said.

[Nick C]

Dave,

 You didn't ruffle my feathers but you do have me scratching my head

 I guess I'll just have to stay out of your card room