Author Topic: the button was wrong moved  (Read 7450 times)

Mateus93

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the button was wrong moved
« on: January 13, 2016, 03:02:39 PM »
Hi want to share a situation that happens during a tournament and explore more about situations like this...

button was on sit 4 (9 handed table) and on the next hand button needed to go to seat 5 has usual but dealer, dont know how, put button on seat 3, dealed the cards and players made the substancial actions (so the hand couldnt back). i think button go of seat 3 to seat 5 fair, once the seat was the button last hand, what do you guys think ? and what about if the button was moved for a far distance, example: was on seat 3 and the dealer push the button to give the chips to the winner and button goes to seat 7 and play the hand... what to do on next hand? back to seat 4 and runs normaly? when reach seat 7 let it pass ?

i hope i was clear and thank you for the answers

Nick C

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Re: the button was wrong moved
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2016, 05:52:11 PM »
Wow...that's a good one! Just when you think you've heard them all someone comes up with this. ::) There must be a rule out there somewhere but at the moment, if there is one, I can't think of it. Because substantial action has taken place...based on logic and common sense such as: No player should receive the BB twice in succession and correcting a situation to the way it would have been if no error were made...I would advance the puck to the position it should have been in before the mistake was made.

 I'm adding this to my original post from yesterday:

 I should mention that the "mistake hand" should be played out first-because of the action that transpired...and then the correction made. I see no other way. After the hand is played out, it's only logical that the button advance to the position it would have been in, if no error had occurred.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 08:00:13 AM by Nick C »

Dave Miller

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Re: the button was wrong moved
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2016, 08:18:41 AM »
Wait a sec...

The button moved backwards??? And nobody said anything? That's certainly unusual!

If that's what happened, then I agree with Nick. Not much else you can do.

But is that really what happened?
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown.
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BillM16

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Re: the button was wrong moved
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 04:50:20 PM »
Interesting questions Mateus.  Firstly, I agree, when the button moved backwards from seat 4 to seat 3 that the hand having had substantial action should be played out.  Of course, seats 4 and 5 wound up paying the SB and BB twice, but they failed to speak up and correct the situation before there was substantial action.  Secondly, I also agree that moving the button forward to seat 5 afterwards makes good sense.  Seat 6 previously paid the BB before the problem occurred and will now be the SB. 

As to the second part of your question:  If the situation been different - the button moved from seat 4 to seat 7 as you suggested - the substantially acted hand would again be played out.  Your question is then, should the button then be moved backwards to seat 5 and then 6 to correct the skipped seats before again skipping ahead to seat 8 - correct?   While obviously unorthodox, I cannot think of a good reason not to back it up and correct the button action so that each player is the button once in the round.  (Of course, losing players, table balancing, etc., could add to the problem.) 


Mateus93

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Re: the button was wrong moved
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2016, 11:10:30 AM »
lol dave... happened, you can believe

thank you for the answer bill... the ideia of table balance if possible its good.

Brian Vickers

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Re: the button was wrong moved
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2016, 12:48:52 PM »
Late to the party so I'll just add my agreement with what is said here. 

Button in Seat 3 hand must play out because significant action happened.  As far as seats 4 and 5 having to pay blinds again: their inattentiveness contributed to the situation; both had the opportunity to speak up and fix it in time.

Agreed that button now should skip to seat 5 to correct as best we can.

Also wanted to add that if the situation were "more normal" and te button had been moved forward twice instead of back that I would not move the button backwards to correct it, ever.

Nick C

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Re: the button was wrong moved
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2016, 03:07:11 PM »
Hello Brian,

 Interesting that you said you would never move the button "back" if it were accidentally moved forward two seats. Would you consider forcing the skipped blinds to post? Curious, that's all. If so...would it be live? Or dead?

Brian Vickers

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Re: the button was wrong moved
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2016, 11:23:58 AM »
Nick,
Yes if button was in seat 4 then got moved to seat 6 and we had action on it, I would allow hand to play out then continue with button moving on to seat 7 the following hand.  We would completely skip the button on seat 5 hand that round.  If we backed it up to seat 5 for the "makeup hand" the possibility is that dealer could run on instinct and forget to hop it over seat 6 then now seat 6 gets the button again.  Too many things could go wrong that could further complicate the situation.  Game moves forward from the point we are at, IMO.

Nick C

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Re: the button was wrong moved
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2016, 08:18:03 PM »
Brian,
 Thanks for your response. I agree that if the button were moved from seat 4 to seat 6 (skipping seat 5), that the hand would have to play out after substantial action. My question is, when you advance the button to seat 7 on the next hand, would you have seat 6 make up the small blind that he would have posted if the button were properly moved? If so, the seat 7 player he would have been skipped his big blind?
 I know it's a bit confusing to follow, correct me if I'm wrong, but it does not seem in the best interest to allow any players to "skip" their obligation to post because the dealer made a mistake.

Dave Miller

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Re: the button was wrong moved
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2016, 06:59:30 AM »
I agree with Nick.

Not only is there the issue of the skipped requirement of the blinds, but the privelege of playing the button.

But I also agree that this is too complicated for a typical dealer.

Frankly, the floor person should be called. He should stay nearby to also insure that the next hand is correctly backed up, and the hand after that correctly advanced.

Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown.
But how much does it cost to knock on wood?

Brian Vickers

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Re: the button was wrong moved
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2016, 03:50:45 PM »
Brian,
 Thanks for your response. I agree that if the button were moved from seat 4 to seat 6 (skipping seat 5), that the hand would have to play out after substantial action. My question is, when you advance the button to seat 7 on the next hand, would you have seat 6 make up the small blind that he would have posted if the button were properly moved? If so, the seat 7 player he would have been skipped his big blind?
 I know it's a bit confusing to follow, correct me if I'm wrong, but it does not seem in the best interest to allow any players to "skip" their obligation to post because the dealer made a mistake.

No, I would not do a makeup hand or blind.  Play it as it lies.

Nick C

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Re: the button was wrong moved
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2016, 05:57:35 PM »
Brian,

 I was not asking to do a make up hand, I was asking if you'd insist that the skipped blinds post on the next hand.