Author Topic: Cash vs tournament  (Read 609 times)

BROOKS

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Cash vs tournament
« on: February 24, 2018, 06:01:15 PM »
In your poker rooms, what TDA rules do you not apply to cash games.
Would like to hear from as many of you as possible to get an idea of what the "norm" is.
I feel that there shouldn't be too many differences between cash and tournament rules.
Obviously the rules that only apply to tournament are irrelevant - balancing tables, chip race etc wouldn't apply
I'm talking betting/raising rules, out of turn action, asking to see a hand, etc
"Face up for all ins" is one that usually isn't applied to cash games.
Any others in your poker rooms?
Thank you very much in advance

Dave Miller

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Re: Cash vs tournament
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2018, 08:03:15 PM »
Iíve often felt that this group should be called the Poker Managers Association. After all, thereís a lot of overlap between cash and tournament.

Similarly, Iíd like to see a section of the rules that addresses the cash differences.

Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown.
But how much does it cost to knock on wood?

BROOKS

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Re: Cash vs tournament
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2018, 10:41:22 PM »
Really? No one can help me out here?

Ok I'll just ask about a few specific ones:

Asking to see a hand, do you use the TDA rule in cash games also?
They must still have possession of their cards

Verbally saying a number is the same as silently pushing out that amount in chips
Apparently some places only use that rule in tournament. So if in a cash game someone bets 60 and the next person SAYS "one hundred" its treated differently in cash than in a tourney?
In a tournament that would be the same as if they had put out 100 in chips, therefore making them have to complete the min raise to 120. But in cash it would be deemed just a call???
I cannot see a reason why that would not apply to cash games also

Calling for a clock
Since TDA is now 30 seconds, do you do 30 seconds for cash games now? Or still 60 seconds for cash game

Any betting/raising rules you do differently for tournament and cash

What about out of turn action, any differences for tournament and cash

Besides face up for all ins, I dont really see the need for many differences between tournament and cash game rules

thank you in advance to whomever gives me some feedback :)


Dave Miller

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Re: Cash vs tournament
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2018, 02:40:48 PM »
Donít know why youíre not getting replies.

I deal in a pub poker league, and play at my local casino, so take this for what it's worth.

You bring up some differences I never would have considered.

The only differences I was thinking of, besides the all in face up, were regarding posting, straddles, chopping the blinds, missed blinds, and any be-at-your-seat-before-the-deal leeway.

Silent unclear action is handled differently? Wow. Why? What's the thought logic there?

Different clock duration? Why? Of course, I applaud making it shorter. When a dealer calls the floorman for the clock, it can often take a minute to get a floorman at the table just to start the timer! (On a side note, I've suggested to Bravo that they use that last button for a timer, so the dealer can start it right away.)

For the record, I was unaware that calling clock was reduced to 30 seconds. We do 30 seconds in the league, but that's primarily because we're a short-stack super-turbo format.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown.
But how much does it cost to knock on wood?

BROOKS

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Re: Cash vs tournament
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2018, 06:42:45 PM »
Thank you Dave!!

I don't see why there should be differences either.
This is just what I am being told by others, and I wanted to see if there was any merit to what they were saying.

Face up for all ins, seems like the only difference there should be.

It just seems to make sense to keep things as consistent as possible.

Hopefully some others will chime in with their input

Nick C

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Re: Cash vs tournament
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2018, 05:50:41 PM »
Hello, Brooks,
 I've been unable to sign-on the last few days so I didn't see your post until Today.
 I'm sure I'm going to think of more down the road because I know there are quite a few. These are allowed in cash games but not in tournaments:
 I believe that not having to post blinds in cash games when you are not at the table is one.
 Adding chips to your stack between hands, as long as it does not exceed the minimum buy-in is permissible.
 Seating is not assigned so you can pretty much sit wherever you want.
 Chip dumping is much easier because you don't have to show your hand if you don't want the pot like you do in tournament poker.
 There is no penalty for checking the nuts when last to act.
 You can request seat changes and even table changes.
 Spectators are usually allowed to sit behind a player...such as a husband playing and his wife watching.
 You can cash out and go home with all that cash before the dealings done!

 I'll get back to you if I think of anything else. Not sure this is what you're looking for.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 08:41:45 PM by Nick C »

BROOKS

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Re: Cash vs tournament
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2018, 05:07:19 AM »
Nick, I know what the differences are between cash games and tournament.

Im talking about Rules of the Game and calls you would make in certain situations. Would you make a different ruling for a tournament than you would for a cash game if it was the same situation?

What would you apply differently between a cash game our a tournament?

I have people telling me that some Rules are different for cash and tournament and I can't for the life of me see why.

Why would Out of Turn Action be treated differently in cash vs tourney?
Why would Verbal declarations be treated differently in cash vs tourney?
Why would Short All In be treated differently in cash vs tourney?

What RULES do you use for tournament that you don't use for cash.

The only one I can think of is Face Up For All Ins, That is just a tournament rule, in cash game you always have the option of mucking your hand and not showing it.

There are obvious TDA rules that wouldn't be relevant to a cash game. For instance, balancing tables, chip race, etc

Scroll through the TDA rules and see what Rules would not apply to cash
Rules in regards to betting, raising, Substantial action, out of turn, oversize chips, reopening the betting, etc
I think it all applies, except for Face up for all ins

Some rooms have chosen to only use the 30 second clock for tournament, but keep 60 seconds for cash
And I've seen some rooms have different rules for Asking to see a hand
Cash game, anyone dealt in can ask, tournament - TDA rules

Wanted to hear from some of the members here, to see if they had any differences between cash and tourney rules
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 05:25:06 AM by BROOKS »

Nick C

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Re: Cash vs tournament
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2018, 10:16:24 AM »
Brooks,

 Sorry I didn't answer your question. Funny that you single out the one TDA rule that I've been against forever. I agree that all hands must be shown at showdown whenever any player is all-in but I'm against turning all hands simultaneous. Whenever players are all-in following the cash game dealer procedure makes more sense to me. Side pots are often created, sometimes multiple pots, and there has always been a systematic procedure to shows cards in a specific rotation...that is: to uncover only the players' hands that are contesting the side pot they are competing for.  Example: Main pot (pot A) first side pot created (pot B) second side pot (pot C)....etc. In my example, at showdown, the dealer will ask to see the hands of the players competing for pot C...then pot B and finally, pot A. What usually happens is: any player in for the main pot or pot B that sees an opponent's better hand will fold...this is a common occurrence in cash games. Tournament poker will not allow this and I'm in complete agreement that all hands must be tabled. I am only opposed to all players turning at the same time. It serves no purpose but can easily cause confusion.

BROOKS

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Re: Cash vs tournament
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2018, 04:05:16 PM »
^I agree

When I teach my dealers about side pots, I tell them to always instruct the players in contention for the side pot to open first, and make sure the all in doesn't open.
Sometimes that all in guy opens when we're dealing with the side pot and both side pot players muck. Then who gets it?

But alas, that is only for cash game.

The TDA rule Face Up For All Ins doesn't bother me too much, because everyone has opened. There is no risk of side pot players Mucking and having no one to award it to.

Nick C

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Re: Cash vs tournament
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2018, 05:54:12 PM »
Brooks,
 You gave a perfectly sensible example, followed by a reason you should settle each side pot in the reverse order they were created...and then you agreed with the TDA, Why? There have been tournament players that mucked in the very situation you described. I believe all tournament players must show their hands but why is it different from cash games?