POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS > Suggestions for New TDA rules and amendments to existing rules READ-ONLY ARCHIVES Pre 2017 Summit

Auto All-in & Auto Call Rule

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Terence Bertault:
Hi guys,

This rule is applied in the world in some houses.

A friend of me ve got penalty for that on the WPT Montreal !
( He didn't call a 2.5BB all-in and took a two rounds penalty )

I use it in my casino.

I name it like that but I don't really know the name of this rule.

It's about fighting against collusion, chipdumping and teamplay ...

A big stack on BB when everybody has folded isn't allowed to fold when a shortstack player is all-in with 2.5BB or less.
A big stack on SB with a 2.5BB or less on BB have to go all-in.

Can we discussed about this rule maybe to put it in 2017 TDA rules ?
Being agreed on the limit to call or shove ?

We can't force a player's action !
But I think we have to him a penalty.

What do you think ?

Friendly regards.

Terence

Nick C:
Terrance,

 I might not be in the majority but...I don't like any rule that penalizes a player (Big Blind or not) for not putting more chips into the pot if they don't want to. Poker is a game of skill and strategy, being forced to play a hand because the raise is minimal should have nothing to do with it. A player calls a wager because he believes he has a chance to win...A player raising a wager is either trying to get more chips into the pot or he is hoping his opponent will fold.

Terence Bertault:
Hi Nick,

Always a pleasure to read you !

Maybe you work in a big Poker Room and have a field of 200/300 players but you know it's hard to fight against teamplay, collusion, chipdumping when you have regular friends players with a 30 or 50 players field ... or several players of the same family on a table or a final table ...

It's a mathematical shove or call my friend, Poker is not a game of feeling ... It's a game of strategy, statistic, probability and mathematic ! ( And luck obvious AhAh )
You know that if his two cards are alive, he will have between 30 and 40% of chance to win the pot even if he has got 7-2o ...  :)

You are talking about recreative players for me, they only play their good cards without math, prob, stat and strategy ... Can we say that they have skill ?
Obvious poker is a money game and everybody can be able to play his money has he wants but we have to educate players by the rules ...

I don't like this rule too and I was firts agreed with you but our job is to control the equity of the game so sometimes we have to ... We can't write and apply a rule for several players because we have doubts on them. I think we have to make rules for all the players !

Good Sunday my friend !

 ;)

Nick C:
Terrance,

 A good Sunday to you, as well. I am always on the side of fairness and will support any rule that would prevent collusion. However, I have always been opposed to basing my decision on how a player "should" play his hand...it is not my duty, as a TD or floorman, to dictate how any player should play his pocket aces, or his 7 deuce off. There are always exceptions to rules. If I know that any player is intentionally in collusion with another player, of course disciplinary action should be enforced.

 In my opinion, tournament poker should demand that the best hand at showdown MUST get the pot! I also believe that each player has a right to play his hand any way he likes, as long as he is acting "in turn" and abides by proper procedures that apply, such as calling, folding or raising!

 I don't know how you feel about this but, if I were holding pocket aces and the TD forced a player to call me with his 7 deuce off because it was only a minimal increase...only to see the flop come 2-2-7  >:( I wouldn't be too happy. How about you?

 I also do not work in cardrooms with very large fields. Like you, I am more likely to work smaller groups with only a few tables. It has also been my experience that friends and family members that play against each other are very competitive and collusion is rarely an issue.

 Thanks for the interesting posts.

Terence Bertault:
Hi Nick,

If I ve got 2.5BB or less and there is a big stack on BB and no callers, if the rules is written, I will know that I can be call by any two cards by the BB; if it's the rules, I ve got to accept it ... and it will be more easily to accept because a player have to know the rules ...

Hope you understand this point of view !

Our job isn t to tell players how to play a hand and we don t have to force the call of a player but we have to penalize him if he takes the wrong decision ...

Players sometimes ask me " Do I have to call here ? " because of this rule and I always say that my job isn't to give an anwser to this question and helping the player in the game or teach him how to play poker; my job is to put a penalty if I think he should have to call ...

 ;)

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