Author Topic: PLO Opening Bet  (Read 8674 times)

WSOPMcGee

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 325
    • The R.O.P.E.
PLO Opening Bet
« on: May 13, 2015, 06:28:06 PM »
Here's another one that has gotten considerable attention on the WSOP FB page.

Question was - Blinds are 3,000 and 6,000. The BB does not have a full bet and only has 3,000 in chips to post. What is the maximum opening bet?

I don't remember debating this in this forum. But I'm ready and armed :)
@wsopmcgee on Twitter

K-Lo

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 869
  • @AskTheTD on Twitter
    • Ask the Tournament Director
Re: PLO Opening Bet
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2015, 08:19:25 PM »
Why do I feel a trap?

My vote is for 18K.

WSOPMcGee

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 325
    • The R.O.P.E.
Re: PLO Opening Bet
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2015, 12:09:12 AM »
Why do I feel a trap?
Good instincts!
Quote
My vote is for 18K.
There's 1 for the 18k camp.  :-\
@wsopmcgee on Twitter

WSOPMcGee

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 325
    • The R.O.P.E.
Re: PLO Opening Bet
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2015, 12:34:20 AM »
Why do I feel a trap?
What I should have said is.... Good Read :)
@wsopmcgee on Twitter

Nick C

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3080
    • http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=557;sa=forumProfile
Re: PLO Opening Bet
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2015, 12:47:05 AM »
I'm not sure but I'll say 12K

Spence

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 355
Re: PLO Opening Bet
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2015, 07:53:34 AM »
We play all blinds as full bets so...  18k

K-Lo

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 869
  • @AskTheTD on Twitter
    • Ask the Tournament Director
Re: PLO Opening Bet
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2015, 11:42:37 AM »
There's 1 for the 18k camp.  :-\

Should I take that to mean there's also a strong 21K camp?

WSOPMcGee

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 325
    • The R.O.P.E.
Re: PLO Opening Bet
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2015, 12:20:38 PM »
There's 1 for the 18k camp.  :-\

Should I take that to mean there's also a strong 21K camp?
Yes. Very strong  :)

and also a 12k camp  :o

If I was doing an actual poll.... I'd guesstimate the current camps are broken down as:

21k 60%
18k 38%
12k 2%
@wsopmcgee on Twitter

Spence

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 355
Re: PLO Opening Bet
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2015, 06:17:10 AM »
I'm confused as to why anyone would have it as 21k...  There's no dead money we're counting.  If the blinds are counted as full bets then essentially the breakdown is...
SB 3k (counted as 6k due to full bet rules)
BB 3k (also counted as 6k due to full bet rules)
UTG - 6+6+6=18k wait... that's not right.

I'd like to change my answer to 24k.  Let me explain because I'm not sure about what the "maximum opening bet" means.
UTG is faced with calling 6k or raising.  When raising in Pot limit you add your call amount then raise everything that is on the table.  Technically the raise amount would be 18k(counting all blinds as full bets) but UTG+1 would face a bet of 24k.
So 24k?  What does "maximum opening bet" mean?  If I was UTG and called "pot" I would be putting 24k in.
That's my answer.

WSOPMcGee

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 325
    • The R.O.P.E.
Re: PLO Opening Bet
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2015, 01:22:20 PM »
I'm confused as to why anyone would have it as 21k...  There's no dead money we're counting.  If the blinds are counted as full bets then essentially the breakdown is...
SB 3k (counted as 6k due to full bet rules)
BB 3k (also counted as 6k due to full bet rules)
UTG - 6+6+6=18k wait... that's not right.

I'd like to change my answer to 24k.  Let me explain because I'm not sure about what the "maximum opening bet" means.

Spence I used the phrase opening bet for that exact reason. To make people think. If I said, "maximum opening raise", which essentially means the same thing, would not make you think.
Also, I used the words "opening bet" because that's what it is, it's the first bet. The BB does not count as a bet as it's a forced bet.

So what does it mean, "Maximum Opening Bet"? It means, what is the maximum range I can bet if I'm first to act (UTG)?
Quote
UTG is faced with calling 6k or raising.  When raising in Pot limit you add your call amount then raise everything that is on the table.  Technically the raise amount would be 18k(counting all blinds as full bets) but UTG+1 would face a bet of 24k.
So 24k?  What does "maximum opening bet" mean?  If I was UTG and called "pot" I would be putting 24k in.
That's my answer.

This is correct if it were a cash game and the game was not being played in the UK. I'd include Ireland too but of late they are being more flexible to adopting the Americanized style of cash game Pot Limit.

You got to your answer in a round about way... But you got there :)

This is still tournament poker. It's just a little deceptive with the Non-TDA Tournament heading on the marquee.

I'm curious to know though, what are 'Full Bet Rules'? Is that what you just call the rounding of bets to the highest blind posted? Meaning in the example above, you're just rounding all blinds to 6,000?
@wsopmcgee on Twitter

Nick C

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3080
    • http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=557;sa=forumProfile
Re: PLO Opening Bet
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2015, 06:48:07 PM »
Does every tournament count the SB as a full BB? I based my low bet on the actual pot. The initial raise (max) pre-flop is 7XSB or 4XBB if the SB is considered to have matched the BB. I just don't know how you would handle this. If the Sb and the short all-in BB are both counted as full bets then I'll agree with Spence's 24K.

 So what's the answer?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 06:49:09 PM by Nick C »

Brian Vickers

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 451
  • Poker Manager
Re: PLO Opening Bet
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2015, 08:47:44 AM »
Tournaments are generally regarded as "true pot limit" with no rounding.  The SB in a tournament is treated as the SB amount and not rounded to the size of the BB.

My instinct says put in the 6000, leaving you with your 6000 + 3000 SB + 3000 BB = 12000 in pot that you can raise on top of your 6000 match so total bet of 18000.

My feeling is that everything else is true pot amount, so a smaller BB should be treated exactly as the amount posted not the amount it should have been.

If BB had posted 6000, it would be 21000 for pot amount, so it's either gonna be 18k or 21k, no other answer makes sense.  24k is wrong per tournament pot limit rules regardless if BB is full bet or not.

Nick C

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3080
    • http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=557;sa=forumProfile
Re: PLO Opening Bet
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2015, 09:27:10 AM »
Brian,

 What about SB 3000 + BB 3000 = 12000 which is my original answer and is the bet amount allowed.

Brian Vickers

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 451
  • Poker Manager
Re: PLO Opening Bet
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2015, 11:34:43 AM »
Nick:
SB 3000 + BB 3000 + you have to put in your call amount of 6000, creating a 12000 pot, yes, so 12000 is the raise amount on top of your 6000 equaling 18000 total

Nick C

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3080
    • http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=557;sa=forumProfile
Re: PLO Opening Bet
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2015, 12:57:02 PM »
Brian,

 Take a look at all of my posts, that's exactly what I said. The question was: "What is the maximum opening bet?" My answer: 12000 total pot size 18000.