BB have to call allin

[The Riddler]

Hi everybody

Multi Table Tournament.
Blinds; 100.000/200.000

1. One Player allin whit 325.000 Chips. Is the BB obligated by the Rules to call because less then 1 BB to call?

2. Is this rule same at WSOP, EPT,WPT?

3. Is the rule somewhere to find..to read about it ?

Thanks much!

[Nick C]

Welcome Riddler,

 The BB is not obligated to call any amount greater than his BB. I don't know of any specific rule that pertains to this but I'm sure someone will offer something.

[K-Lo]

There is no such rule. However, if there is suspicion of "soft play" or collusion, the TD may assess a penalty.

[The Riddler]

Thank you much for the answers!

there is the question if in this case, everybody folds to the BB, 200.000...so he has to call 125.000 ( less then a BB).

Is it a question of yes or no?...for me its like playing the nuts and check behind.
There is no reason to fold as same there is no reason to check because in both cases the player in a tournament want to generate chips and win.

Thanks again!

[K-Lo]

It would be difficult to have a general rule that says you must force someone to call  if the amount is less than one big blind. Although there certainly will be many times when a call would and should be automatic, it is not something we would  be right to force a player to do unless we suspected collusion or soft play.

For example, suppose it was less than a big blind to call, but the big blind had only 2 big blinds left?  Do we still force him to call?  What if held 2-3o? What if he wanted to allow the blinds to pass because the players were on the bubble and a number of shorter stacks were about to be blinded out?

As a further example, suppose the big blind has lots of chips -- folding here would certainly be suspicious and may well suggest that a penalty is in order. However, there have even be disputes in these types of scenarios - some players have argued that when it was close to the bubble, they would not want to call in this situation because they want to prolong the bubble.  Is this soft play?  Opinions differ.

In summary, I understand your concern but, if a player suspects soft play they could certainly call the floor and ask for a ruling. But I don't think we could ever have a general rule.  Where would we draw the line? Call for 1 big blind or less? 2 big blinds? 3 big blinds? 5% of a chip stack or less? 10%?  As Nick pointed out, the big blind would only be obligated to play for his big blind under the rules, when in the big blind position. Any other rule might cause more problems than it would solve.

[Nick C]

Riddler:
 There is no way that we should ever force a player, in your scenario, to call. Like Ken says, "any other rule might cause more problems than it would solve."

[Brian Vickers]

Riddler: If the BB only has 325,000 as well in that spot, do you think he should be obligated to put himself all-in?

Forcing someone to play according to good strategy is not in the goals of the TDA. 

Another example: It's a good tournament strategy to check down a pot when a 3rd player is all-in, but we wouldn't make a rule to force them to check it down and in fact players are even forbidden to discuss it.

If there is a reason to suspect that the BB is colluding with the all-in to keep him alive, the TD can inspect the hands and use some decision making skills at that point.

[The Riddler]

Thank you!

in this case the BB is massive chipleader at FT and everybody folds to him...

[Brian Vickers]

If there was a TD nearby, he should have paused the action to inspect the BB's hand.  I rarely, if ever, would do such a thing, but this is a prime example of when this should be done.  If the BB had a face card I would take him aside and issue a stern word of warning.  If the BB had an Ace or a pocket pair I would give him a soft play penalty. If he has something like 7-2 or 9-3 or 8-4, something unsuited or unconnected I would not say anything but would continue to observe play.

[The Riddler]

Thanks!

in this case the BB is massive chipleader at FT and everybody folds to him...

make that a difference?.

[Nick C]

Brian:

 I don't agree with you looking at anyones hand and making a ruling based on his holding. You've got to be kidding. The original post says it is a multi table tournament, it mentions nothing about head to head, or the number of players involved. The BB can do whatever he wants...that's the way I see it.

[The Riddler]

Nick youre right..original post is incomplete:

Multi Table Tournament

we are at the Final Table, 100.000/200.000 no Ante

BB is the chipleader, massive chipleader.

1 player mid position allin for 325.000...EVERYBODY folds to the BB.

The BB, massive chipleader is thinking what to do...there are 625.000 in the pot and he has to bring 125.000 to call.

Easy to say the player in BB has the right to take his decision but in this situation to many questions open

- colusion
- no reason to fold in this case

[Nick C]

I know what you're implying but I really don't think the tournament directors should go there. The instance of the BB folding in this position is probably a very rare occurrence, so rare that I don't see it becoming a problem. I understand that there could be a chance for collusion, or dumping chips but, the solution would be too complex. I might consider keeping my eye on the players involved, just in case. Beyond that, I really don't think we can "force" any player to put more chips in the pot, if he doesn't feel his hand warrants a call.

I would prefer that management, and the floor stick to the the difficult job at hand, rather than critique, and or analyze the reasons why a player would fold in your scenario. We've all heard about "a chip and a chair" so why give any player an extra 125,000?

[K-Lo]

If I suspected collusion or soft play, particularly based on player history, then I would penalize. But I don't feel I'd be in the right to force the player just because he has a lot of chips. Perhaps he should call based on the odds, but that doesn't mean that he must call.

I personally wouldn't check his cards (without prior suspicion of collusion), but I'd have no hesitation suggesting that his play is a bit unorthodox and probe for an explanation. If he answers "he's my friend and I didn't want to see him bust", he'll be receiving at least a warning if not a penalty right there. On the other hand, if he answers "I had a crap hand and didn't want to double him up", I don't see what would have given us the right to play his hand for him and force a call.

The more interesting situation that I've heard about is along the lines of: "I am chip leader and by keeping this small stack in, I can continue to put pressure on all the remaining stacks at the table, who are all also short and playing scared, hoping that this 9th player will bust. They can always try to take the short stack out themselves if they want but I am not going to waste my chips."  There was an interesting debate on this situation, and I'm not sure if a consensus was ever reached. Personally, I don't mind that strategy that he claims to be using -- as long as he's taking advantage of the stack situation and not favouring that individual in particular, he's earned those chips so who am I to tell him when to call or fold.

[The Riddler]

Thanks you all for the answers!

That`s a story whit no end.:-)