Author Topic: The dealer exposes a player's downcard after the initial deal. How to handle?  (Read 2193 times)

alex

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Hi all , this situation occurred on a NLH , the dealer finish the initial deal & all the players had their 2 cards , before UTG act , the dealer elect to touch the big blind cards flashing unintentionally one of them .
Will the flashed card be replaced with the first burning card as we usually do during the deal as no action occurred.
Or the card flashed still play as the initial deal was finished. Ty
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 07:45:32 AM by MikeB »

K-Lo

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Not sure why the dealer is touching the cards after the fact, but I would definitely not be replacing cards here.  The player should take them in and protect them as soon as possible.  While it may be the case that no action had occurred and the player did not touch them, it may not be that clear to everyone else at the table.  The last thing you want is someone accusing the dealer of swapping out a card that the player did not want.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 07:45:49 AM by MikeB »

MikeB

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Players must protect their own hands....

This is not so dissimilar to a situation where the dealer inadvertently scoops up and mucks a live hand: the player has no redress (TDA Rule 56).
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 07:46:01 AM by MikeB »

Nick C

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Absolutely agree with Mike and Ken.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 07:46:13 AM by MikeB »

MikeB

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Several questions branch from this topic, that are tangents to TDA Rule 56:

1) what if the dealer exposes a player's downcard(s) after the player has made a bet or raise, but before that bet has been called by anyone. Should the injured player have the option to retract their uncalled bet?

2) what if someone other than the dealer kills a player's hand while that player has a pending uncalled bet (example: the next player muck-tosses his cards and one ends up scrambled into the bettor's downcards): should the injured player be entitled to return of the uncalled bet just as if the dealer had killed the live hand? Recall also the related incident at the 2012 WSOP where Koroknai mucked his own live hand after making a large bet, not realizing Gaele Baumann still had live cards.

I note that Rule 56 doesn't specify "fouled by the dealer", just "If a hand is fouled or the dealer kills a hand by mistake...", so that appears to stretch to cover a hand being fouled by another player? Although at the time it was written, 56 was focused on cases where the dealer mucks live cards by mistake. Is clarification needed for this one way or the other?

These are subjects of the following suggestion thread:
http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?topic=1018.0
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 11:23:24 AM by MikeB »

Nick C

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Mike,

 To answer both questions, I would hold the owner of the cards responsible. How could a dealer kill a protected hand? As far as the Bauman and Koroknai hand...I'm going to the link you posted right now.