Author Topic: Is the term "pass" an official poker betting term?  (Read 8534 times)

K-Lo

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Re: Is the term "pass" an official poker betting term?
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2014, 07:10:36 AM »
I'm not even sure what you guys are debating anymore...  ??? ::)

Complete is an important term - in limit betting, and especially in limit stud variants.

It is a type of raise, in that a player is wishing to wager something more than the amount needed to call, but it is not technically a raise for the purpose of a betting cap (which is usually a bet and three/four raises).

Therefore, I think that "complete" is worthy of having its own distinct status as a poker term, even though it is very similar, but not the same as, a raise in all aspects.   It's short for "complete the bet being faced to the full amount of the bet defined for that betting round". We say "complete" for short, and that's well understood.

I think you all kind of agree, but want to engage in a little bit of boxing.   :P

Nick C

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Re: Is the term "pass" an official poker betting term?
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2014, 10:40:49 AM »
Hello Ken,

 I still don't agree with you on this one. The game is limit stud 3 and 6...the bring-in is 1...now what's easier to say, "make it 3, or complete?

 While we're on the subject, it only applies for a structured limit or fixed-bet, which ever you prefer. Completing the bet does not apply in spread limit, does it? So what we are talking about is a structured/fixed bet game like 1 and 2...or 3 and 6...or 5 and 10...or 30 and 60...and so on. We are also only talking about the initial betting round...so if you want to increase the bring-in to a bet, just announce the amount...what could be easier? I played stud poker for many years and never heard "complete" used the way some of our members say it is.

 Okay, let's get back to "PASS"...it absolutely can not be omitted from any poker glossary :(. On a more positive note:  It is very encouraging to know that Mike is in favor of adding gestures to our rules. ;)
« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 10:43:23 AM by Nick C »

MikeB

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Re: Is the term "pass" an official poker betting term?
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2014, 11:16:37 AM »
It's  good to re-visit the reason for Rule 3 in the first place: to try and convey to a global, multi-lingual poker world with alot of new players entering every year, that the responsibility for getting their intended betting action right lies primarily with the player. This is consistent with the language adopted in 2009 that "it is player's responsibility to make his actions clear".

In that context, including some unmistakable "time honored" gestures definitely makes sense...

These specific words and gestures are there not so much for their own sake, but to provide examples of how best to conduct an event for maximum clarity of action and minimal problems regarding how to interpret action.

btw, can't resist this one: whenever a player is facing a bet and says "make it ___X___", that's the same as saying "raise to a total of X".  You never say "make it" when facing a bet if you just intend to call :)  HOWEVER, here's the problem with "make it".... Let's say I'm facing a 1000 unit bet, and I say "make it..." then hesitate. Have I locked myself into a raise? IMO I haven't. I could just then say "Make it... 1000", and call... the TD might grumble about my disruptive choice of words, but I think by rights my call would stand. For that reason IMO, "make it" doesn't reach the same level of clarity as "raise".
« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 12:27:04 PM by MikeB »

Tristan

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Re: Is the term "pass" an official poker betting term?
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2014, 02:11:26 PM »
While we're on the subject, it only applies for a structured limit or fixed-bet, which ever you prefer. Completing the bet does not apply in spread limit, does it? So what we are talking about is a structured/fixed bet game like 1 and 2...or 3 and 6...or 5 and 10...or 30 and 60...and so on. We are also only talking about the initial betting round...so if you want to increase the bring-in to a bet, just announce the amount...what could be easier? I played stud poker for many years and never heard "complete" used the way some of our members say it is.

Like I said, our room primarily has fixed limit games.  'Complete' gets used on a regular basis and it is not just in the initial betting round, but all rounds.  We also run stud on a semi-regular basis.  So I'm telling you that we hear that term quite a bit.  Keep in mind the dealers will announce the completed bet as "completed to x" so that players accurately know what the action is.  So, like I said, the word flies around pretty regularly here.  Now whether it is easier to say it one way or another is just a moot point since we cannot make all the players use the terms we want them to.  All we can hope to do is agree on a standard of what to do when the situation arises.
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WSOPMcGee

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Re: Is the term "pass" an official poker betting term?
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2015, 03:46:13 AM »
Tristan,

 Sorry but I never heard it. I also can not agree with Mike when he said "complete" is a form of a raise.
Definitely not a raise.
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WSOPMcGee

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Re: Is the term "pass" an official poker betting term?
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2015, 03:53:33 AM »
Let's introduce the phrase "I'm Clean" as official poker terminology Tristan.  ;D
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Nick C

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Re: Is the term "pass" an official poker betting term?
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2015, 07:28:14 AM »
Thomas: I think many of our members are confused enough without your "added humor" ;D Next thing you know, someone will introduce it as an official betting term! :D
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 10:47:00 AM by MikeB »

Brian Vickers

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Re: Is the term "pass" an official poker betting term?
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2015, 03:14:00 PM »
Here's my contribution:

3:  Official Terminology of Tournament Poker
Official betting terms are simple, unmistakable, time-honored declarations like: bet, raise, call, fold, check, all-in, pot (in pot-limit only), and complete (in fixed-limit only), and pass (a dual purpose term meaning either A: to check if player is facing the option to check or B: to fold if player is facing a bet) . Regional terms may also meet this standard. The use of non-standard language is at player’s risk because it may result in a ruling other than what the player intended. It is the responsibility of players to make their intentions clear. See also Rules 40 & 49.

Nick C

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Re: Is the term "pass" an official poker betting term?
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2015, 04:43:58 PM »
Brian: I'd certainly agree to your suggested change...all we'd need then is the mention, and acceptance, of certain gestures , such as: rapping the table on your turn to act. How does anyone play draw poker, and not allow the word "pass" as an unmistakable, time-honored term?

Nick C

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Re: Is the term "pass" an official poker betting term?
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2015, 07:35:20 AM »
Thomas McGee, I was expecting some support from you on this subject, especially since the Rule book glossary for R.O.P.E. (by Thomas McGee) makes no mention of the word "complete" yet has multiple definitions of the (unmentioned and not recognized by the TDA) word "pass"   :-X

« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 01:06:52 PM by Nick C »

BillM16

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Re: Is the term "pass" an official poker betting term?
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2015, 08:02:55 PM »
In NLH tournaments I have heard the small blind "complete" to call the big blind.

Nick C

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Re: Is the term "pass" an official poker betting term?
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2015, 08:39:09 PM »
BillM16:

 It sounds logical, and I'd certainly understand it's meaning in that situation. However, "call" would be more appropriate, and I don't believe it was intended for a flop game. It's my understanding that the term is only recognized, as a "simple, unmistakable, and "time honored" declaration for stud. ::)

 Besides, even if "complete" remains a part of TDA Official Terminology of Tournament Poker...it has nothing to do with the word "pass" which I believe definitely deserves to be on that list.

WSOPMcGee

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Re: Is the term "pass" an official poker betting term?
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2015, 08:58:13 PM »
Thomas McGee, I was expecting some support from you on this subject, especially since the Rule book glossary for R.O.P.E. (by Thomas McGee) makes no mention of the word "complete" yet has multiple definitions of the (unmentioned and not recognized by the TDA) word "pass"   :-X


You had me for a second there Nick. Straight from the my copy of R.O.P.E. glossary:
Quote
COMPLETE THE BET: To increase an all-in bet or forced bet to a full bet in limit poker.
It doesn't specifically say "Complete" or "Completion" but maybe in the next edition. In addition there's multiple references to the word "Complete" in the Rules of Stud betting section.

As far as Pass goes.....
Quote
PASS: (1) Decline to bet. In a pass-and-out game, this differs from a check, because a player
who passes must fold. (2) Decline to call a wager, at which point you must discard your hand and
have no further interest in the pot.
Definitely a simple, unmistakable, time honored, declaration not only for Stud, but Draw games.
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Nick C

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Re: Is the term "pass" an official poker betting term?
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2015, 09:17:16 PM »
Thank you Thomas, I've always said "pass" belongs...and I've always said "complete" needs more, as you stated "complete the bet." I rest my case! ;D