Author Topic: Calling the Clock - End of Levels / Break  (Read 2598 times)

WSOPMcGee

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Calling the Clock - End of Levels / Break
« on: January 19, 2015, 07:10:15 PM »
At PCA 2015 I had an interesting situation occur regarding calling of the clock.
 
At the end of the level a big pot developed in which one of the players involved in a heads-up pot was taking extra time to act. Players are approximately 8 players to the money.

A player not involved in the pot saw that there was under 1 minute left on the clock before the next level change and requested "Clock" be called with 00:00:20 secs left on the clock. He requested clock solely because he was due to be the big blind before the next level and wanted to try and force the player to act in order to get his big blind in before the blinds went up. Not an unreasonable request.

Unbeknownst to him, players were due to go on break. Upon realizing that players were going on break, he left the table.

After the player has left the floor finally arrives with 5 seconds left in the level. The count is started and 1 minute is given before the hand is declared dead.

My question is this: What would you do?

My thoughts on this:

  • I find this to be a unique situation and an angle shot by the player requesting clock.
  • Why - Because 1) This player is not in the hand, 2) This player left the table after requesting clock
  • His only chance of getting one more hand in is if the player tanking insta-mucked after clock was called.
  • The player requesting clock is influencing action on a hand he's not involved in.


While every player has a right to request "clock", I find it highly irregular that a player would leave after making the request. I think they should stay at the table.

In this situation, players were due to go on break. The blinds going up is irrelevant, unless the player insta-mucks. Otherwise the point is mute.

Secondary question: Would you continue to count down the remaining "clock" time after players have gone to break, when the player requesting clock is not at the table any longer and no further action can take place after the completion of the hand?

Looking for a compelling reason to continue the countdown.
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Brian Vickers

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Re: Calling the Clock - End of Levels / Break
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2015, 06:23:51 AM »
At PCA 2015 I had an interesting situation occur regarding calling of the clock.
 
At the end of the level a big pot developed in which one of the players involved in a heads-up pot was taking extra time to act. Players are approximately 8 players to the money.

A player not involved in the pot saw that there was under 1 minute left on the clock before the next level change and requested "Clock" be called with 00:00:20 secs left on the clock. He requested clock solely because he was due to be the big blind before the next level and wanted to try and force the player to act in order to get his big blind in before the blinds went up. Not an unreasonable request.

Unbeknownst to him, players were due to go on break. Upon realizing that players were going on break, he left the table.

After the player has left the floor finally arrives with 5 seconds left in the level. The count is started and 1 minute is given before the hand is declared dead.

My question is this: What would you do?

My thoughts on this:

  • I find this to be a unique situation and an angle shot by the player requesting clock.
  • Why - Because 1) This player is not in the hand, 2) This player left the table after requesting clock
  • His only chance of getting one more hand in is if the player tanking insta-mucked after clock was called.
  • The player requesting clock is influencing action on a hand he's not involved in.


While every player has a right to request "clock", I find it highly irregular that a player would leave after making the request. I think they should stay at the table.

In this situation, players were due to go on break. The blinds going up is irrelevant, unless the player insta-mucks. Otherwise the point is mute.

Secondary question: Would you continue to count down the remaining "clock" time after players have gone to break, when the player requesting clock is not at the table any longer and no further action can take place after the completion of the hand?

Looking for a compelling reason to continue the countdown.

I don't think I would put player on the clock in this case unless the other player heads up with him requests it.  The player who thought he was being affected by the decision is now no longer affected in any way.  Do we need to get the players to break so a race-off can be performed?  Is the timer paused until all players finish their hands?  These are the only arguments I see for a clock at this point.

MikeB

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Re: Calling the Clock - End of Levels / Break
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2015, 01:01:44 PM »
Interesting case....

The key for me here is whether a reasonable amount of time has passed or not, given the circumstances of the decision the player is facing. I'll take the clock-callers suspected motivation(s) into account, but it isn't the central issue; every clock-caller has some motivation.

If a reasonable amount of time has passed, given the circumstances of the decision the player is facing, and I approve the clock I wouldn't stop it because a break started, or because the caller left the table. It just seems like a bad precedent: if the clock is called, the clock is called, run it out.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 01:03:38 PM by MikeB »

Nick C

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Re: Calling the Clock - End of Levels / Break
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2015, 10:44:53 AM »
I don't have a better answer for your question, Thomas...however, I always thought that "a reasonable amount of time" is too vague, especially when we are so exact after the clock is called for. (1 minute and a 10 second countdown). I've mentioned this on other threads but never thought it was a major problem, so I never pursued it further. I do recall reading; about 2 minutes, as a reasonable amount of time...2 minutes, are you kidding me? This is one area where online poker got it right. After about 15 seconds, a buzzer goes off, your hand begins to flash and if you haven't acted, your hand is dead!

Under current rules, there is no way to prevent players from stalling to avoid posting the bigger blind. I'd say, that's why when tournaments get close to the money, they play hand-for-hand. Not the answer you're looking for, just got me thinking. :-\

Brian Vickers

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Re: Calling the Clock - End of Levels / Break
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2015, 09:57:12 PM »
especially when we are so exact after the clock is called for. (1 minute and a 10 second countdown). 

Just a quick reminder that as of the 2013 rules, clock is now 50 secs silent + 10 secs outloud countdown for 1 minute total.  No longer 1min+10secs.

Nick C

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Re: Calling the Clock - End of Levels / Break
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2015, 08:20:48 AM »
Thanks Brian, the old rules are engraved into my brain and it takes a while to adjust...in this case nearly 2 years ::)

Okay, so back to my last post...who puts the clock on the "reasonable amount of time" before the clock is started? ;D

WSOPMcGee

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Re: Calling the Clock - End of Levels / Break
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2015, 08:04:48 PM »
Speed Poker!
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