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21
Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General / Re: One million!
« Last post by MikeB on December 28, 2018, 12:01:05 AM »
If this guy clearly and unmistakably said "one million" before or simultaneous with his chip push, I have a hard time not holding him to a 1mm bet (or all-in if he has less). What other purpose could he have for uttering any number while betting other than to make that number his bet? Maybe he got nervous, confused by the currency or the language, who knows... but you have to have discipline in a tournament.
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Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General / Re: One million!
« Last post by Dave Miller on December 25, 2018, 09:34:48 AM »
 Yes, I meant the oversize chip rule.

 My intent was to show how a similar situation is covered by a rule which removes the requirement of the TD to have to try to figure out a playerís thoughts and intentions.

 And frankly, if the 1 million player needs to have some sort of penalty, forcing him to be all in seems like enough of a penalty.
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Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General / Re: One million!
« Last post by BillM16 on December 24, 2018, 09:05:55 AM »
The single chip rule is designed so that we don’t have to assume or think about what the player was intending. For example, a player facing a 2K bet who has a stack of 1K chips, but silently puts in a 5K or larger chip, is still making a call because we don’t want to assume anything about his intentions.

 Likewise, when this player says 1 million, we should not be forced to make any kind of conclusions or assumptions based on a chip stack size.  The fact that it is less than 1 million is irrelevant. Otherwise, you’re forced to ask, at what point does the stack size become relevant?

It is worth noting, (I believe) Dave is referring to TDA Rule #49:

49:  Oversized Chip Betting
If facing a bet or blind, pushing out a single oversized chip (including your last chip) is a call if raise isn’t first declared. To raise with an overchip you must declare raise before the chip hits the table surface. If raise is declared but no amount is stated, the raise is the maximum allowable for the chip. If not facing a bet, pushing out an overchip silently (no declaration) is a bet of the maximum for the chip.


Also, many clubs (in my area) do have a different single chip rule.. The house rule is that a single chip of any size is always a call unless raise is announced.  (It doesn't need be an oversized chip.)

However, as I read the OP, the bet amount was announced before or at the same time as the chip was bet.  Therefore, the verbal declaration stands.
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Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General / Re: One million!
« Last post by Dave Miller on December 22, 2018, 06:48:49 AM »
 The single chip rule is designed so that we don’t have to assume or think about what the player was intending. For example, a player facing a 2K bet who has a stack of 1K chips, but silently puts in a 5K or larger chip, is still making a call because we don’t want to assume anything about his intentions.

 Likewise, when this player says 1 million, we should not be forced to make any kind of conclusions or assumptions based on a chip stack size.  The fact that it is less than 1 million is irrelevant. Otherwise, you’re forced to ask, at what point does the stack size become relevant?
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Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General / Re: One million!
« Last post by The Hitman on December 21, 2018, 05:13:50 AM »
Sorry Dave, I haven't made myself really clear on the previous post...

When I was quoting you, I was just envisaging for one moment if it could be all-in, but the more I think about it the more I am sure that this specific situation has to be ruled as a call, on my point of view of course. I am really open to any arguments that could prove me I am going the wrong direction, so let's talk about it ;-)
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Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General / Re: One million!
« Last post by Dave Miller on December 21, 2018, 04:29:38 AM »
I'd rule this as an unclear bet and force the player to call.
Wait a sec, until that last sentence, you seemed to agree that itís all in.
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Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General / Re: One million!
« Last post by The Hitman on December 21, 2018, 03:03:45 AM »
For
Doesnít this phrase apply?
Quote from: Rule 40
...In unclear situations or where verbal and chips are contradictory...
I think it should be a call with a warning or penalty. After all, a million is way more than his chip stack.

On second thought, at what point do you say all in is acceptable because the chip stack is almost a million? Therefore, it probably should be all in regardless of the stack size. And still get a warning or penalty.

I agree with your second thought: at what point do we decide that one million is a valid announcement?

However, I still think players are responsible for making their action clear, and using non-standard vocabulary is at their own risk. Why this player is announcing "one million"? He could have said all-in and and would have been understood by the whole table... Instead he opened the door to an interpretation of the rule. And according to his opponent reaction (and there was one), it opens the door for him to adjust his action. It opens the door to angle shooting...

In my humble opinion, TDs are here to rule actions non intentions. For me if it appears that there is a doubt about the action, and in that situation it's clearly the case, I'd rule this as an unclear bet and force the player to call.
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Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General / Re: One million!
« Last post by Dave Miller on December 20, 2018, 04:47:06 PM »
Doesn’t this phrase apply?
Quote from: Rule 40
...In unclear situations or where verbal and chips are contradictory...
I think it should be a call with a warning or penalty. After all, a million is way more than his chip stack.

On second thought, at what point do you say all in is acceptable because the chip stack is almost a million? Therefore, it probably should be all in regardless of the stack size. And still get a warning or penalty.
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Hello folks,


Floor declared it does not change the fact Seat 2 would have been busted since he was not at his seat at the end of the dealing phase.
Moreover, since TDA is now formal about Random Card Theory, it does not matter the mistake changed the cards received by the player so the hand has to be played until the end. Then floor declared Showdown.

Cheers
30
Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General / Re: One million!
« Last post by Nick C on December 20, 2018, 03:28:08 PM »
I will agree with Bill, with one condition. If the bettor pushed the amount before verbally announcing raise, it would only be a call. If the bettor announced 1,000,000. before pushing his (single) 5K chip forward it would be an all-in raise.
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