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Live Cash Game Rules Questions / Re: Cash game PLO - Difficult ruling
« Last post by GreggPath on May 04, 2018, 11:00:50 AM »
I agree with Nick. If you are 100% certain what the four cards in his hand were, award him the pot with a stern warning that next time the ruling might not go in his favor.
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Live Cash Game Rules Questions / Re: Cash game PLO - Difficult ruling
« Last post by Shehu-J on May 04, 2018, 09:39:11 AM »
Hello Nick C ,thank you for the warm welcome and the very quick response.
I was positive player 2 had 4 cards and also saw the As fall off ,fortunetly i happen to be there when the situation occured.

Long story short ,i awarded the pot to the player with 3 tabled cards even though it felt a bit wrong ,i would feel more dissapointed though giving the pot to the worst hand.

Ur answer was very helpful ,thank you :)
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Ok, except you got this part backwards:
The first card is dealt to the button and the second to the BB.

Ooopps, thanks Dave.  My intent was to simply change the wording so as to identify the first card dealt, first, before stating the last card. And, of course, I screwed that up in the process. ::) I've corrected the OP.

Not to speak for Dave, but I think he was moving the discussion to this forum since we're actually talking about changing a rule (which this is the appropriate forum for).
IMO, now that Dave has identified the error in the above Suggestion, and I have corrected it, the rest of this conversation belongs in the Discussion Forum topic: http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?topic=1471.0.  This Forum is for Suggestions not Discussions.
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Live Cash Game Rules Questions / Re: Cash game PLO - Difficult ruling
« Last post by Nick C on May 03, 2018, 08:56:56 PM »
Welcome to the Forum, Shehu...good question.

 Because it's a cash game you might have a little more wiggle room, so to speak. Tournament rules are often more strict. Without having more information I'll give it a shot.

 If you were certain that player 2 only had four cards, and you could clearly see that the ace of spades fell off the table I would have a difficult time not awarding him the pot. You'd be surprised at the integrity of many players. Player number one would be disappointed that he or she lost but they would probably concede the pot to the ace high nut flush, even if the card fell off the table.

 I mentioned earlier that I'd need a little more information to arrive at the best decision. I know you need all cards to win and I know that cards should never leave the table but sometimes strange situations occur and you need to rule in the best interest of the game. Sometimes cash games are between friends and the stakes are very low and if the pot is small whatever you decide is fine. However, if you are in a situation where both players involved are strong competitors (and not facebook buddies) a solution like offering to split the pot might not work.

 Let's look at it this way. You know that Player 2 probably had the best hand but he must show all four of his hole cards to win. So, you could easily justify a ruling where you would award the pot to the only remaining player with a complete hand...player #one. How would you feel if you killed player #2's hand knowing he had the nut flush? Your conscience or gut feeling might be the best gauge to answer your own question. It's a big job working the floor in poker...remember if it were that easy everyone would be doing it.

 I will pass along a brief excerpt from a book written by one of my favorite authors of no-nonsense poker rules. His name is Chuck Ferry and the book is "RULES OF POKER" He wrote: "When strict enforcement of a rule will cause an obviously unfair result, then the floorperson shall have the unrestricted right to waive any rule and make the decision which will cause a fair result."
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Live Cash Game Rules Questions / Cash game PLO - Difficult ruling
« Last post by Shehu-J on May 03, 2018, 08:01:09 PM »
Hello everyone ,My name is Julian I m currently A tournament Director in a local Poker club in Greece.

I ran into a Difficult decision last night on a Cash game Hand, 2 Players at showdown : Player 1 Shows Third Nuts ,Player 2 Overexcited tables his 4 cards with force and by mistake 1 card sliped off the table ,2 were properly tabled and 1 into the killed cards and unable to be identified.

To be more specific the board was Ks5s6s Ah 4h ,Player 2 Had As9s4h ,the As fell off the table and the 9s4d was proerly tabled.
What would u guys do ?

Thanks in advance
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Gregg,

 Always good to hear from you. I like the idea that a change is being considered. I just felt that we had a rhythm going on the other thread and I didn't want any prior replies to get lost, so to speak.

 I've been battling for about seven years on some of the raise rules and they remain unchanged. Not sure what more I can do. There are probably twenty-five different revisits addressing the same problem...re-opening betting. Each link is rehashed at great lengths, sometimes to the extent that they are "locked-out." The next Summit comes and goes and that issue remains.
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Why don't you continue this conversation where it was started? I also agree with Dave. Why would you deal to the button first?

Not to speak for Bill, but I think he was moving the discussion to this forum since we're actually talking about changing a rule (which this is the appropriate forum for).


Alice Button...Bob SB...Carol BB...If either Alice or Bob gets eliminated the Button goes to Carol. If Carol gets eliminated the Button will advance to Bob. It does give Bob the SB twice but Alice would have been the BB on the next hand if Carol were not eliminated. I could be wrong but I think it's that simple.

I believe that is all true and yes, that simple. That's why I suggested simplifying the rule to just say the button moves to the player who most recently was BB.
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Bill,

 Why don't you continue this conversation where it was started? I also agree with Dave. Why would you deal to the button first?

 I'll move my last response from the original post to this one. I'd like some feedback on my simple answer...Thanks.

Alice Button...Bob SB...Carol BB...If either Alice or Bob gets eliminated the Button goes to Carol. If Carol gets eliminated the Button will advance to Bob. It does give Bob the SB twice but Alice would have been the BB on the next hand if Carol were not eliminated. I could be wrong but I think it's that simple.
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Ok, except you got this part backwards:
The first card is dealt to the button and the second to the BB.
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See the following Forum Topic:
going from 3 players to two (why is player paying SB two times in a row?)


The current 2017 rule is:

34:  Button in Heads-up
Heads-up, the small blind is the button, is dealt the last card, and acts first pre-flop and last on all other betting rounds. Starting heads-up play, the button may need to be adjusted to ensure no player has the big blind twice in a row.


One suggestion is:

34:  Button in Heads-up

Beginning heads-up play, the player who paid the BB most recently becomes the button and SB.  The opponent is BB.  The first card is dealt to the BB and the second to the button.  The button acts first pre-flop, and acts last post-flop.



One problem with the current wording is that the button is sometimes adjusted even though a heads-up player would not be paying the BB twice in a row.


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