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Live Cash Game Rules Questions / Re: Running it twice
« Last post by hectorjelly on June 21, 2018, 02:35:02 PM »
They get all in on the flop, so there is the turn and river to come. A set will sometimes outdraw a flush.
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Live Cash Game Rules Questions / Re: Running it twice
« Last post by Dave Miller on June 21, 2018, 01:44:51 PM »
If the pot is run once then the main pot of $300 can either go to player A or B....
Um, doesnít a flush ALWAYS beat a set?

Iím not following your logic.
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Live Cash Game Rules Questions / Re: Running it twice
« Last post by hectorjelly on June 21, 2018, 12:33:47 PM »
The reason we don't allow it is that if we do we will be incorrectly awarding the pots. To take an extreme example, lets say three players get all in in holdem.

Player A has a flush and $100
Player B has a set and $200
Player C has a straight and $200

Which leaves the main pot of $300 with all contestants, and a side pot of $200 with player B and C

If the pot is run once then the main pot of $300 can either go to player A or B, player C will never win this as a straight is never going to beat a flush. Player C's equity is 34% of $200. If we allow the main pot to be run twice if the shortstack loses the first run out, his equity becomes 34% of $500.
Running it twice should not change the equities.

I'd love if someone could point out a flaw in this logic!

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Live Cash Game Rules Questions / Re: Running it twice
« Last post by Dave Miller on June 20, 2018, 08:58:09 PM »
I think itís OK for the main pot to be included in running it twice if the short stack loses, provided the side pot players have agreed to that before the run outs begin.

In fact, I fail to see any reason why such a deal would be prohibited.
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Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General / Re: Folding OOT
« Last post by BillM16 on June 20, 2018, 07:24:06 PM »
OK, so we all agree that the relevant TDA Rule is: 

An OOT fold is binding.

That sentence is clearly stated in 2015 TDA Rule #40 and 2017 TDA Rule #44.

How is it possible that the dealer or floor could be confused about this TDA rule?  Here is what I learned while discussing this with them.  Put simply, their interpretation and position is that "the OOT fold is binding ONLY if the corrected action doesn't change."

Here is 2017 TDA Rule #44, Part A:

44:  Action Out of Turn (OOT)
A: Any action out of turn (check, call, or raise) will be backed up to the correct player in order. The OOT action is subject to penalty and is binding if action to the OOT player does not change.  A check, call or fold by the correct player does not change action. If action changes, the OOT action is not binding; any bet or raise is returned to the OOT player who has all options: call, raise, or fold. An OOT fold is binding.


My question to you is this:  Is there a way to make this rule more clear to avoid this confusion? For example, would this be better?

PROPOSED 44:  Action Out of Turn (OOT)
A: An OOT action is subject to penalty and may be binding.  When OOT action occurs, play will be backed up to the first player skipped and resume in the correct order.  An OOT fold is always binding.  An OOT check, call, bet or raise is binding if the corrected action to the OOT player has not changed.  A check, call or fold by a correct player does not change action. When action changes, an OOT bet or raise is returned to the OOT player who may then call, raise, or fold.
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Live Cash Game Rules Questions / Running it twice
« Last post by hectorjelly on June 20, 2018, 03:48:09 PM »
Hi Guys,

Quite a esoteric rule question incoming, but it causing our cardroom a lot of grief at the moment.

At the moment we allow players to run it twice once the pot is over Ä300. As it stands, if the short stack wants to run it only once we allow the larger stacks to run the sidepots twice, but award the main pot to whomever wins the first runout. Some of the players have said that if the shortstack loses the first runout they should be allowed to also have the main pot included in the running it twice. I'm reluctant to allow this as I realise we will then be incorrectly awarding the amounts, but would like to know what the industry standard is for this situation.

Many thanks...

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In button ante games it is possible that there is no ante (dead button).

Some poker rooms play with big blind ante because it is the only position which appears in every hand.
So there is always an ante!
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Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General / Re: Folding OOT
« Last post by Nick C on June 16, 2018, 08:32:17 PM »
Gregg, Yes you are correct it is TDA #40...thanks. haha...I meant #44
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Regards to all guys,  I have one uncertainty about the new rule "Big blind ante and baton ante" What happens if an idly little blind does the player on the big blind put an ante again for everything or not? It's the same if we have a dead piston. Who then puts an ante?
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Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General / Re: Folding OOT
« Last post by GreggPath on June 16, 2018, 05:03:23 AM »
TDA #40 Clearly states that out of turn folds are binding!

I think you mean #44, but otherwise I concur.
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