TDA POKER TOURNAMENT RULES & RECOMMENDED PROCEDURES => Official Poker TDA Recommended Procedures, Latest Version => Topic started by: Nick C on April 16, 2012, 02:50:14 AM

Title: Stop Changing Fundamental Dealer Procedures
Post by: Nick C on April 16, 2012, 02:50:14 AM
 I've got some pet peeves that go beyond the way we interpret rules from time to time. My complaint is directed at anyone that goes out of their way to change fundamental procedures like placement of the muck and burncards, shape of tables, automated shufflers and where they are located. The most annoying is the head-to-head tournaments that are televised where the dealer places the flop in the center of the table, spreads the cards to his right (that's okay), but then proceeds to place the turn and the river on the left side of the flop! This is done for the television audience (I guess :o). Some producer, who probably doesn't know anything about poker, thought it would be better for the viewers. I see kidney shaped tables, auto-shufflers on the left (and sometimes on the right), bravo systems across the front of the table bank, signage on the left, rake slides on the right, rake conversion circles, bad beat jackpot slot, toke boxes, and let's not forget the gadget that is needed to swipe your "VIP"Card!

 How could anyone, with any knowledge of the game, allow such changes? The head-to-head tournament is a major event! You would think someone would tell the producer that the cards should be flopped from the dealer's left to right and the turn to the right of the flop and also the river. I guess they are all online player's because they do the same damn thing! That's right, and I know hardly anyone ever noticed. The dealer is seated at the top of the screen and that's where the problem began. In order to display the cards from the viewer's left to right, they decided to allow the (animated) dealer to put the cards on the table...well, ass backwards! When I approach a table with the community cards displayed, I should be able to identify the flop, turn, and river.

 As far as the televised tournaments, use a different camera angle if you need to, but do it right okay? If you need some help, call me ;D.

Title: Re: Stop Changing Fundamental Dealer Procedures
Post by: chet on April 16, 2012, 09:17:58 AM

I fully understand where you are coming from and support you for the most part.  However, we in the poker community need to be realistic.  The TV "boom" has done wonders to expand the popularity of poker.  Without that exposure, we would still be back where we were 10-15 years ago.  Just look at the early years in which the WSOP was broadcast.  The audience base was minimal at best.  TV is the ONLY way that poker events are going to get commercial sponsorship and those folks know it.  As such we need to have some flexibility to accommodate their needs. 

I expect you feel quite strongly about the "hole cams".  But, wouldn't you agree that watching poker on TV w/o the hold cam is pretty boring? 

I can go on and on, but I need to close this for now.  My point is that we need to make adjustments for changes in the game and have a bit more open mindedness

Title: Re: Stop Changing Fundamental Dealer Procedures
Post by: Nick C on April 16, 2012, 11:27:43 AM
 I agree the combination of TV exposure (specifically the travel channel), along with Chris Moneymaker's World Series Main Event win in 2003, were contributing factors to the poker "boom." I also realize that the "lipstick cam" or the "hole cam" could be looked at as a plus, but I actually enjoyed watching the final table last year without knowing what the players had until the betting was complete. I'm not disputing every change that was made...but I question changing the fundamentals that I mentioned.

 Do you think automated shufflers have improved the game? I don't. Do you think changing the shape of the table, or the placement of board cards, or changing the standard procedures improved the game? I don't.

 I would expect change to take place over 150 years of poker, but I also believe many changes were not for the better. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Title: Re: Stop Changing Fundamental Dealer Procedures
Post by: Brian Vickers on April 29, 2012, 02:15:56 PM
I think that automatic shufflers are better for the game, and for a bigger reason than the obvious one of having your next deck already shuffled for you at the end of every hand.  Having a deck counted down at the end of every hand is a big plus when it comes to game protection.
With the colors of the deck changing every hand, and each color deck being counted down before being dealt with again, there is virtually ZERO chance of a player holding onto a card and then switching it out at the optimum time to win a big pot.  I'm a favor of anything that speeds the game up AND provides better game protection.
The only argument is if the obscene amount of money the casinos have to pay to lease these machines is offset by the money made by improving hands per hour and the added benefit of gaming protection.

What I agree with you 100% on is that I'm not a big fan of poker managers coming up with their own way of interpretting an established rule of the game.  If I go and play Blackjack at a casino, I can expect almost the exact same game no matter where I go (with the possible exception of some insurance/even money).  Yet, every time I visit a new room I have to find out the house rule for their betting line, whether it takes a full raise or 50% raise to re-open action, texting/mp3 players, showing my hand when heads up, etc.  I would love to see an orginization and set of rules like the TDA but for cash games.  McGee's R.O.P.E. was a great idea but didn't receive widespread support.
Title: Re: Stop Changing Fundamental Dealer Procedures
Post by: Nick C on April 29, 2012, 03:09:17 PM
 I'm sure there are many that will agree with you (what else can they do...their stuck with them), but I'll never be one that favors automated shufflers for poker. I'm sure it has a lot to do with me training dealers. I don't think they speed up the game, and they cost way too much. Poker rooms have been struggling forever to compete with other table games and slots. The added cost did nothing to increase the profits for any poker room that I know of. They can't even figure out which side of the table they want to stick them! It's like anything else that's new and shinny, it's great until they start to wear and break down. Tell me what happens when they malfunction?
 You really think you drop more money with the shufflers? They have some great salespersons, I'll give you that. If they were that good, everyone would have them. They're way too overpriced. Do they really count the cards? I didn't know that. Can they tell you if there are two ten of diamonds or does the machine just confirm 52 cards?
Title: Re: Stop Changing Fundamental Dealer Procedures
Post by: Brian Vickers on May 02, 2012, 12:15:13 PM
They will just give you the count. 
The iDeal machines in Table Games will actually tell you the cards that are in everyone's hands (like 3-card poker) though, but poker rooms won't have anything like that.