PokerTDA

TDA POKER TOURNAMENT RULES & RECOMMENDED PROCEDURES => Official Poker TDA Recommended Procedures, Latest Version => Topic started by: Nick C on August 01, 2011, 11:08:04 AM

Title: Tournament dealer procedures
Post by: Nick C on August 01, 2011, 11:08:04 AM
 The following is a list of what I will be teaching new dealers. If anyone has anything to add, I would like to hear your suggestions.
      RESPONSIBILITIES OF TOURNAMENT DEALERS:
Proper shuffle procedures MUST be followed. This will include automated shufflers.

*Dealing to all tournament players, including those absent from the table. (PLEASE NOTE) This may require a change in procedure. The details will be better explained after the new rules from the TDA Summit VI are adopted.

Blinding off absent players.

*Kill the hand of an absent player as soon as the last card is dealt. There is a pending change to this procedure. The new proposal will not allow players to receive any cards unless they are seated before the first card is dealt. Exactly how this will be accomplished has not been finalized. This means, that before any betting begins for that round, the absent player has NO option to contest the hand. Therefore, their cards will be mucked.

Starting the action with the proper bettor for each round.

*Announcing, out loud, all bets and raises.

Calling any string bets and/or, string raises.

Count the deck as required.

Know when to call for the floor.

Announcing the number of players at the table, after a player is eliminated.

Never stall, or slow down the speed of a deal, waiting for the clock.

Read all tabled hands, at the showdown.

At the showdown, never expose any player's down cards, unless directed by the owner of the hand, or the floor.

Be sure to issue warnings to player's who use offensive language, become abusive to others, or break rules of etiquette. Repeat offenses will require you to alert  the floor.

Remind players to protect their own hands, and Act in Turn.

*Announce the number of active players  before dealing each round.

Announce when a player goes all-in.

*Keep spectators away from the table.

I strongly advise dealers to educate all players to: Act in turn; wait until the active player (to their right), acts before them, or as directed by the dealer. Protect their own hand. This may require players to hold onto their cards when all-in.

I also suggest at showdown, players competing for the pot, NEVER release their live hand until they are certain their hand is beat, or THEY HAVE BEEN PUSHED THE POT!

* My feelings on re-shuffle are; A scramble or mix of the cards (not the standard shuffle) would better guarantee that no cards are exposed. The standard shuffle requires that the cards be gathered and picked-up facing away from the dealer before the first riffle. This would be unacceptable because it would expose the identity of remaining cards.



I thought that I would add Unacceptable behavior for dealers:

 HYGIENE:

           a.) offensive body odor
           b.) overpowering cologne
           c.) wrinkled or soiled uniform
           d.) bad breath
           e.) dirty fingernails
 Procedures:
           a.) sloppy dealing
           b.) flashing cards
           c.) rolling the deck
           d.) premature dealing
           e.) failure to observe action
           f.) watching TV
The Never's
           a.) Never engage in unnecessary conversation.
           b.) Never Stare at players. Avoid eye contact.To stare at a player is often mistaken as an indication that it is their turn to act.
           c.) Never address women in any derogatory manner; such as honey, sugar, sweetheart etc.
           d.) Never call any female "ma'am," young or old. Miss or young lady is better, and knowing their name is best.
           e.) Never point your finger at players. (use an open hand if you must point).
           f.)  Never forget to acknowledge a toke (tip).
           g.) Never criticize how a player plays their hand.
           h.) Never disagree with any decision made by the floor. These should be discussed in private.
            i.) Never display anger at the table.
            j.) Never chew gum.





*ADDED AFTER ORIGINAL LISTING

Nick Ciavarella

Title: Re: TOURNAMENT DEALER PROCEDURES
Post by: Spence on August 01, 2011, 08:24:23 PM
Announcing the number of players active on each street.
As well Nick, do you kill the big blind hand immediately after finishing the initial deal out when he is away form the table? I know a few places will wait until it is that players turn before mucking the cards.
Title: Re: TOURNAMENT DEALER PROCEDURES
Post by: Nick C on August 02, 2011, 04:43:48 AM
Thanks Spence,
 
 We used to wait until the action returned to that seat, and like you said, the hand was live until then. We had some problems with that and found that it was better to let the players know that they had to be in their seat when the last card was dealt. Player's would, take another "hit" on their cigarette, or talk a little longer on the phone, and then race back to their seat. We realized that having players running through the card room was not a good idea.........so, we changed that to killing the hand immediately. An argument could be made if everyone folded (even the SB), that the absent BB should get the pot. There are a few unlikely scenarios that could take place (rare but possible) . If that did happen, you could award the pot to the absent player, or leave it in the center for the next deal.

 To further explain: The absent BB will have the cards killed but, the BB will remain in the "betting area" in front of his seat until the complete round of betting is finalized.

 I will add your suggestion: announce the number of active players  before dealing each round (street). I would announce the number of players when I was "tapping"before the burn.
Title: Re: TOURNAMENT DEALER PROCEDURES
Post by: Luca P. on August 02, 2011, 04:57:29 AM
Nick,
I think that only SB and BB should have a live hand until it's their turn, because they payed an obliged bet and so they have the right to play

Title: Re: TOURNAMENT DEALER PROCEDURES
Post by: Nick C on August 02, 2011, 06:03:33 AM
Consider the tournaments where players are blinded off when they are late arrivals? Do you wait for the action to reach that seat before killing the hand? If you do, I have no problem with allowing the SB and BB (ONLY), to have live hands until the action returns to them.
 I like to tell student dealers that there are some cardrooms that have different procedures than others. For example: I teach riffle, riffle, strip, riffle and others teach riffle, strip, riffle, riffle.
 I'm curious. When "the poker brat" is late arriving, and his BB is posted, does anyone say; "Hold on, Phil is in the lobby, he'll be here in a minute." ;D
Title: Re: TOURNAMENT DEALER PROCEDURES
Post by: Luca P. on August 02, 2011, 07:16:13 AM
Nick,
sorry I didn't explain my point of view correctly:
What I was saying is that if BB is not at the table and for example everybody fold to him, I assume he is the pot winner
Title: Re: TOURNAMENT DEALER PROCEDURES
Post by: Nick C on August 02, 2011, 07:26:23 AM
Linker_split,
 I think I answered your question in reply #2: An argument could be made if everyone folded (even the SB), that the absent BB should get the pot. There are a few unlikely scenarios that could take place (rare but possible). If that did happen, you could award the pot to the absent player (BB), or leave it in the center for the next deal.

Title: Re: TOURNAMENT DEALER PROCEDURES
Post by: JasperToo on August 02, 2011, 07:38:44 AM
Any hand that does not have a player at his seat when the last card is dealt to the big blind is killed.  The cards are placed in the muck.  If there is a blind in front of that seat then the chips come into the middle of the pot.  If the hand is folded all the way around, then the last player with a live hand gets the pot.

there is no way under TDA rules that  an absent big blind could be awarded a pot on a preflop fold around.
Title: Re: TOURNAMENT DEALER PROCEDURES
Post by: DCJ001 on August 02, 2011, 08:00:32 AM
Jasper is correct, except that the first sentence of his post should read:

Any hand that does not have a player at his seat when the last card is dealt to the button is killed.
Title: Re: TOURNAMENT DEALER PROCEDURES
Post by: Stuart Murray on August 02, 2011, 08:27:04 AM
with regard to who gets the pot when everyone folds and the bb is not at his seat, the last LIVE hand wins the pot, therefore if it is folded round to the SB he would win the pot, even when he is folding as he has the last live hand at the table, and does not need to 'call' or raise the absent BB's forced bet in order to win the pot.

It is rare that it does happen, as usually someone will want to pick up that dead BB amount, with a raise from late position.

Regards
Stuart
Title: Re: TOURNAMENT DEALER PROCEDURES
Post by: Nick C on August 02, 2011, 10:11:54 AM
Gentlemen:
 If you look at my original post, you will see that I agree with the majority. I also agree with Stuart when he points out how rare it would be, if no one called the BB. How many options could there be?
                                              a.) Kill the hand immediately
                                              b.) Wait for the action to return, to that seat before mucking the hand
I prefer killing the hand immediately because what happens when players call the absent BB, but there are no raises? How far do you go?

I don't agree with Jaspertoo. I prefer to leave the BB in front of the empty seat as opposed to pushing it into the pot right away. I want players to be able to easily identify the blinds. The cards are mucked but the chips remain until the betting round is complete.

There must be other issues with the procedures I've listed? I'll wait for your feedback.
Title: Re: TOURNAMENT DEALER PROCEDURES
Post by: JasperToo on August 05, 2011, 03:59:25 PM
Thanks DC, you're right about my first sentence... at least you knew what I meant :)

Nick, as to pulling the big blind chips in, I can go either way.  I kind of like having them there as a marker as well.  I was illustrating that the chips are part of the pot and that the player wouldn't be winning any of it.
Title: Re: TOURNAMENT DEALER PROCEDURES
Post by: Spence on August 07, 2011, 06:54:49 PM
Under "read all tabled hands" you can add in Highlighting the winning hand on the board
Announce out loud all bets and raises
Be aware of any suspicious activity including but not limited to Collusion/Soft play/Team play/Card marking etc.
Title: Re: TOURNAMENT DEALER PROCEDURES
Post by: Nick C on August 07, 2011, 07:17:51 PM
Thanks Spence,
 I'm thinking about adding a DO AND DON'T'S for dealers. I think it would be helpful and easier to write.
Title: Re: TOURNAMENT DEALER PROCEDURES
Post by: JasperToo on August 08, 2011, 12:41:04 PM
Spence mentioned something in his post about announcing all bets and raises.  There was a bit of discussion at the summit about whether or not the dealer should announce the AMOUNT of a bet or raise.  And, unfortunately, I did not quite figure out if there was a definitive consensus.

I think it was pretty clear that a dealer shouldn't start counting down a big stack of chips from a player that just shoved all in.  Matt made his feelings clear on that....let the stack speak for itself until the opponent requests a count.

But it is pretty common practice for dealers to announce the amount of a bet or raise as a matter of routine during a tournament (and surely during a cash game as this tends to speed things up).  And you can't watch any of the live WSOP coverage and not hear the dealers announce the amounts of bets and raises.

I thought I heard Matt say that the dealer should never announce the amount of the bet or raise during a tournament, but merely announce that there IS a BET or RAISE with no quantifying speech involved.  And then when a subsequent player asks for a count the dealer should already know, if possible, or reach out and count it down. 

It was clear that most everybody thought that a dealer shouldn't automatically pull in all called bets, leaving the raise amount out, UNLESS the player who has the action makes the request.

So what's the consensus on this?
Title: Re: TOURNAMENT DEALER PROCEDURES
Post by: Nick C on August 08, 2011, 04:03:54 PM
I tried to reply to the TDA Recommended Procedures but was unable to. I copied this because it describes what Jasper is discussing.

RP-2. Bringing in Bets is Discouraged. Routinely bringing in chips as betting and raising proceeds around the table is poor dealing practice. The reduction in bet stacks may influence the action, create confusion & increase the risk of error. The TDA recommends that dealers do not touch a player's bet unless a count is needed. Only the player currently facing action may ask the dealer to bring-in chips.

 I always train dealers to bring all bets into the pot when the betting round is complete. The exception, of course is when action is down to two players and they have enormous chipstacks. I think that there could be mention of this because many of us have tournaments that don't have large numbers of chips on the table. I've worked small tournaments where player's started with 10 chips each. A betting line would be helpful to assure that a player could not retract their chips. The WSOP and the WPT are not what we should be looking at for the average tournament. Bringing in the bets is a proper dealer procedure.
Title: Re: TOURNAMENT DEALER PROCEDURES
Post by: JasperToo on August 08, 2011, 04:51:06 PM

 I always train dealers to bring all bets into the pot when the betting round is complete. The exception, of course is when action is down to two players and they have enormous chipstacks. I think that there could be mention of this because many of us have tournaments that don't have large numbers of chips on the table. I've worked small tournaments where player's started with 10 chips each. A betting line would be helpful to assure that a player could not retract their chips. The WSOP and the WPT are not what we should be looking at for the average tournament. Bringing in the bets is a proper dealer procedure.

Nick, you say you always train dealers to bring all bets into the pot when the betting round is complete.  If I understand you correctly you mean all players who are going to enter the pot have and all action is complete because the last player only called whatever bet or raise is out there?  That is a different scenario than the one being addressed with the "dealers bringing in chips" in RP-2.  The situation there is when all the players call a blind or initial bet and then a late player raises, dealers (including myself..) will frequently pull the initial bets from each player into the pot leaving the raise amount in front of the raiser.  This procedure has apparently been discouraged, unless specifically requested by the opponent who's turn it is to act.

That part didn't seem to be a problem to me... I was mostly curious about whether dealers should be quantifying bets or just let players count the chips themselves unless they specifically ask for a count?
Title: Re: TOURNAMENT DEALER PROCEDURES
Post by: Nick C on August 08, 2011, 05:49:26 PM
Jasper,
 Perhaps I do have a problem understanding the situation defined in RP-2. I will always expect a good dealer to count (not out loud) each players bet before they push it into the pot. I train dealers to wait until the complete betting round is finished before pushing the chips into the pot. I'm not quite sure I'm understanding you completely. The blinds are in the betting area (part of the pot but not actually in the center pot yet), as players call, their bets are also placed in the betting area (this is another reason why I prefer a betting line). The blinds remain until all bets and raises (if any) are complete. At this point the dealer should have all correct amounts from all participating players confirmed. Some of the more efficient dealers will announce, "pots right" burn and turn and then sweep in the bets to the center. This saves a little time as oppossed to pushing the bets into the pot and then burning a card. In either method, I do not want the dealer to push the blinds in until the round is complete.
 I know there was much discussion about not letting the dealer count the chips, or not letting the dealer do much of anything. I don't agree.
If there is one thing that bothers me when I go to play in a casino it is this; Player A bets 37 and the calling player pushes a stack of chips forward and the dealer topples it over into the pot without confirming it! Count the damn chips.
Title: Re: TOURNAMENT DEALER PROCEDURES
Post by: JasperToo on August 08, 2011, 06:02:58 PM
Ok, that last post makes it pretty clear to me that you are teaching your dealers procedure that fits well with the spirit of RP-2 in that you expect them to leave bets in front of each player until all bets or raises have been called or a player folds.

As I said, I think a dealer should be able to count a bet when it is pushed out but the discussion was whether or not the dealer should actually announce that amount (if the player didn't) to the rest of the table.  The dealers at this years wsop were doing it but I gathered that Matt wouldn't approve.
Title: Re: TOURNAMENT DEALER PROCEDURES
Post by: Nick C on August 09, 2011, 04:54:48 AM
Announcing the bets is appropriate. If an incompetent dealer continues to "get it wrong" then that is a situation that has to be corrected. If the dealer can't improve, perhaps a job, not poker related would be more suitable. I don't think it should be at the expense of changing proper fundamental procedures of good dealers, that do it right.

Poor dealers, is a poor reason for making that kind of a change in a rule.
Title: Re: Tournament dealer procedures
Post by: Nick C on August 09, 2011, 03:30:10 PM
Mike,
 Would you explain the proper procedure for bringing in bets, or better yet, tell me what that means. I've been in poker a long time and every now and then, I hear something new. The only time "bring in" was mentioned in the past was the minimal amount to call the initial bet or blind.

 While I'm on the subject of not understanding; what does the word "complete" mean in Rule #3?

 Finally, is there a reason that we had to mention six-handed games in rule #9? Just curious, that's all.

 

Title: Re: Tournament dealer procedures
Post by: chet on August 09, 2011, 08:24:32 PM
Nick:

Not to speak for Mike, but here are my 2 cents:

From The Game Day Poker Almanac, Official Rule of Poker, by Kelli Mix:

"Bring-In Bet or Bringing-it-In  --  A forced bet used primarily in stud poker games to stimulate action..."  I would think that you would be familiar with that term given your experience.   :)  Remember there are tournaments around for games other than flop games.

"Completing a Bet -- 1.  Raising the Bring-In bet to a full bet in a stud poker game.  2.  Raising to the minimum amount in a poker game where one player has gone all-in for less than the minimum bet..."  If I remember correctly, this last part applies only to Limit Poker, not No-Limit.

As to Six Handed Games -- 6 handed games have become quite popular lately.  In fact, if I remember right there were seven different 6-handed events in the 2011 WSOP. 

Chet
Title: Re: Tournament dealer procedures
Post by: MikeB on August 09, 2011, 11:22:12 PM
Mike,
 Would you explain the proper procedure for bringing in bets, or better yet, tell me what that means. I've been in poker a long time and every now and then, I hear something new. The only time "bring in" was mentioned in the past was the minimal amount to call the initial bet or blind.
 

Here's an example of "bringing in the bet" by the dealer in the context of RP-2. Say there's 3 players. A bets 1000, B calls 1000, C makes it 2400 total. So the dealer, thinking that he will "simplify" things, brings in 1000 from each player into the pot, leaving zero in front of A, zero in front of B and 1400 for C. The action is now on A who's looking at 1400 to call from C.  While the bet size may be technically correct, this process is discouraged for the reasons listed in the RP.

Chet also cites "the bring in" by a player   which is another similar term but not the subject of RP-2. That probably deserves clarification in the title in Version 2.0 "Bringing in Bets by the Dealer  is Discouraged"

 [/quote]


 While I'm on the subject of not understanding; what does the word "complete" mean in Rule #3?

 

In high stud, for example: let's say it's 10 - 20 limit with a forced bring-in of 5 for the low upcard showing on the initial deal. The lowcard can just put out the 5 bring-in or they can push out a "complete" bet of 10. If they push out the 5, the next player can also complete that to 10.

In limit games in general, if a player makes an all-in wager for less than half the amount of a normal bet or raise, that can also be completed to a full bet or raise.


 Finally, is there a reason that we had to mention six-handed games in rule #9? Just curious, that's all.

 
For 6-handed tournaments, 6-handed holdem for example... it's a style that some players like because it tends to force action, you can't lay back as readily as in an 8 or 9-handed event.
Title: Re: Tournament dealer procedures
Post by: Nick C on August 10, 2011, 02:28:37 PM
Okay guys thanks,
 So.....I agree with the rule that the dealer should not bring in bets.

I know what a bring-in means for betting, and for those interested the bring in for hold'em is the size of the big blind. It does not only pertain to stud.

I was curious about why the TDA would have to mention a six handed game, that's all. Thanks for clearing things up.

It seems odd that the word complete would be universally accepted as a proper word for poker. I've never used it to state a bet size in over 55 years in poker.
Title: Re: Tournament dealer procedures
Post by: Nick C on August 19, 2011, 08:13:30 AM
After taking another look at Mike's example, I have to say that I am guilty of bringing-in bets. I would do that to isolate the raise and make it easier to see how much was necessary to call the raise. I agree that it could cause some confusion but, I thought that it was helpful when action was down to heads-up. I can certainly live with the rule and now I understand it's meaning. I do believe that many of the rules for poker (not only the TDA), should have a separate "section," or catagory for HEAD-TO-HEAD & also ALL-IN situations. I believe both can have a serious impact on making the right call.
Title: Re: Tournament dealer procedures
Post by: JasperToo on August 19, 2011, 04:59:52 PM
So I was wondering if anyone else wanted to weigh in on the "announcing bets" thing.  Nick says that he thinks it is proper and I have always thought so myself. 

I think the discussion at the summit might have been directed specifically at an all-in bet (player pushes out a big stack of chips and says 'all-in' the dealer should NOT automatically reach over and count the chips but should just announce -"bet - all-in" or "Raise - all-in" and then wait for the next player to act to ask for a count before counting them).  This I am ok with for sure.. but what about the rest of the time? 

Should the dealer merely be announcing "Bet" or Raise" without quantifying it UNTIL a player who's turn it is to act asks for a count?  Or should they be announcing the amount of the bet or raise after it is put out?

For some reason I came away fuzzy on this topic after the summit.....
Title: Re: Tournament dealer procedures
Post by: Nick C on August 19, 2011, 05:21:04 PM
Jasper,
 You came away fuzzy because you don't agree with the new TDA Rule #42 Accepted Action. Neither do I. The new rule does not recommend that the dealer count anything, even when asked by the player considering a call. He can ask, but what good is it, if he is given the wrong information, he is still liable to complete the call to the full amount. Period.
 There are times when I was dealing where a player made a raise and it was obvious how much the raise was; example Player A bets 100 and Player B raises to 200 total. I see nothing wrong with announcing "raise, 200 to call" to the next player, or if head to head; I would say "raise.... 100 more to call." If the action were down to two players and Player A bet 100 and Player B pushed all-in, or several stacks of chips, I would just say "raise." If the other player asked for a count, I would give it to him. It is pointless to break-down every raise without being asked. Limit games are much easier, of course.
Title: Re: Tournament dealer procedures
Post by: mooredog on September 21, 2011, 07:52:07 AM
In our room we discourage our dealers from pulling in the call amount when there's a raise unless a player facing action asks. Also as to announcing raise amounts, we announce the amount if not an all-in but do not announce an all-in amount unless a player facing the action asks the amount. I learned this procedure the hard way while dealing in a big money tournament years ago when after announcing an all-in amount a name pro started swearing at me (conveniently with no supervisor in earshot) for announcing the all-in amount.
Title: Re: Tournament dealer procedures
Post by: Nick C on September 21, 2011, 09:23:39 AM
mooredog,
 I agree with you but, what you do is not in compliance with TDA #42 Accepted Action. That is why I don't like the rule. If a calling player asks how much it is to call, IMO, he or she should be given that information. When a player goes all-in, that is all that should be announced by the dealer, unless the opposing player requests a count. This is where I disagree with the new TDA Rule. At some point a count will be taken, except when it is obvious that the winner has the other player covered, so why not count the bet or raise when it is requested?
Title: Re: Tournament dealer procedures
Post by: mooredog on September 22, 2011, 06:56:32 AM
 We do count the bet or raise when requested.
As for rule #42 we tend to go with rule #1 instead. Basically in the interest of fairness if a player asked for a count and the dealer counted the bet in good faith, announced it, noone corrects him, and then after a call we find the amount to be wrong we usually hold the players liable for the announced amount only. It's usually close and when this has happened the players involved have felt our decision to be fair. I realize this runs counter to rule #42 now but fortunately this dilemma is somewhat rare. In a big international tournament the rule may be interpreted more strictly. You would hope at that level the dealers would be extremely competent and this mistake would not happen but as anyone who's dealt, supervised, or played in the biggest tournaments knows staffing needs sometimes mean inexperienced dealers (and overworked & tired ones) end up in these situations. I believe the rule to be too strict.
Title: Re: Tournament dealer procedures
Post by: Nick C on September 22, 2011, 08:03:27 PM
mooredog,

 I agree and your reply was well written.
Title: Re: Tournament dealer procedures
Post by: Pambuzz44 on July 25, 2012, 05:03:25 PM
Requirements of a Professional Dealer
   
1.   Accuracy.  Getting the right cards to the right players at the right time smoothly and without exposing cards, turning board cards at the right time, keeping the bets and side pots straight, making change correctly, getting the correct rake unobtrusively, reading hands correctly, pushing up the board when the winner is found, pushing the pot to the player with the best hand, splitting pots correctly when necessary, and so forth. Remember to read all tabled hands, it is your job to find the winner even if the player does not see it.
2.   Mechanical Skills.  Technique!  The ability to shuffle and deal without exposing cards, handle chips, and the like. The shuffle procedure is shuffle-box-shuffle-shuffle, and remember to always clear your hands.
3.   Knowledge of the Games.  Knowing and understanding the rules of each game, how the game is dealt, and the house policies and procedures and executing.
4.   Ability to control the Game.  Being able to maintain the game pace.  That is, the ability to keep the game moving, prevent out-of –turn actions, avoid unnecessary delays, without rushing either yourself or the players.  Remember, always use an open hand—never point—at a player when it is their turn to act.
5.   Positive Attitude.  A manner of conveying professionalism that makes the experience of playing poker enjoyable and rewarding. Smile, be courteous but keep your personal lives to yourselves and do not ever discuss the hand in progress in any capacity other than announcing players, bets and etc.
6.   Professional Demeanor.  Proper posture and attitude communicate professionalism as does courtesy and kindness.
7.   Ability to deal with Customers.  Besides attitude and personality, this includes diplomacy, etiquette, and knowing when to call for the Supervisor.
8.   Appearance.  One’s dress, grooming, and personal hygiene are essential to a professional demeanor.
9.   Reliability.  The ability to do your job properly and to be available and prepared when needed. When a supervisor asks you to do something, you do it, even if you don’t understand the reasoning behind the request. We as supervisors strive to maintain a fair working environment for all staff and we expect compliance on every level.
10.   Restraint.  The ability to be quiet, keep your full attention focused on the game, and to decline to partake in any extraneous conversations not directly related to the hand in progress. Remain focused on the game your dealing, do not watch T.V. or socialize with other employees, don’t watch the race, just keep your focus on your table and you will drastically minimize mistakes.
Title: Re: Tournament dealer procedures
Post by: Nick C on July 25, 2012, 08:32:57 PM
Welcome Pam,

 Very nice list for dealers to follow. I would like to mention a couple areas that might be acceptable, yet different from the way you do it. First; #2 the shuffle procedure in many casinos is riffle, riffle, strip (or box), riffle. Both ways are used. If you are working where they insist the "strip" follows the first riffle (as you stated) that's the way you do it.

 You might also hear from those that don't agree the dealer should announce all bets, etc,. I agree with you, but others do not.

 Finally. your #9 might be difficult for a good dealer to follow, when he or she knows the floor is wrong. Other than that, I would like to have my poker room filled with your dealers.

Good job!
Title: Re: Tournament dealer procedures
Post by: chet on July 25, 2012, 08:50:15 PM
Nick:

I guess I must be having a contrary night.  I disagree with your statement on Rule #9.  A dealer, at the table, should NEVER get into a disagreement or discussion with the attending floor person about a rule or the interpretation thereof.  Making sure the floor has the correct facts, is OK, but the other is a good way to find you way to the unemployment line.  If a dealer disagrees with a floor decision, that discussion MUST take place away from the table, once that dealer has been relieved.  To do otherwise, would, in my opinion be disrespectful and that cannot be tolerated in front of the customers.

Chet
Title: Re: Tournament dealer procedures
Post by: Nick C on July 25, 2012, 11:05:25 PM
Chet:

 We don't agree much, do we? Unfortunately most of the time the floor isn't at the table when these situations occur. If I'm dealing, and the floor is about to make an obvious mistake, I might be a bit more persuasive or try to explain the situation better. I've worked in quite a few rooms where the dealers were more knowledgeable than the new floorperson, or the dual-rate that is splitting his time on the floor and dealing. Unfortunately, I've also worked rooms that had floorpersons that; 1) Never dealt poker & 2) Moved over from the pit!  Sorry, they didn't have a clue.

 I wouldn't argue openly in front of the table. However, I would try to resolve the situation on my next break.

 I've seen enough screw-ups on youtube by TD's and the floor in just about every major tournament that's out there. I've even made a couple bad calls myself back in the day ;D
Title: Re: Tournament dealer procedures
Post by: K-Lo on July 25, 2012, 11:49:39 PM
I find it slightly amusing that the two sentences that you (Nick) and Chet are focussing on in points #2 or #9 are basically two of only a handful of custom additions (the part about not watching the race etc in #10 was also added) that the poster has made to the published list of 10 "Characteristics of a Professional Dealer" from the Professional Poker Dealer's Handbook. :o  It appears that almost all of the remaining text is taken from the PPDH verbatim, in case anyone is looking for the reference.
Title: Re: Tournament dealer procedures
Post by: Nick C on July 26, 2012, 05:51:18 AM
What the hell is that...the race? Are they talking about the Kentucky Derby ;D?

K-Lo if you're talking about the same Professional Poker Dealer's Handbook that I have, I can point out some serious flaws about pitching cards that needs to be addressed. One of the problems with these "lists" is (IMO), by what authority are the authors governed?  Who are "they" anyway?