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POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS => Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General => Topic started by: Boris Mauboussin on July 03, 2017, 03:05:01 AM

Title: Could a pushing dealer make a floor call ?
Post by: Boris Mauboussin on July 03, 2017, 03:05:01 AM
Hello folks,

This a question I ask myself for a long time now.
With the habit to work on events, I realize that in some specific situation, dealers won't call for a floorman.

The reason they don't could be anything :
- lacking knowledge
- think he can handle the situation
- does not care at all...

So, when I am pushing a fellow companion and I notice something which would require a floor decision, should I make the floor call if the active dealer does not ? (We take under consideration that the hand is not over)

Widely, could any staff member make the floor call ? (Seat Hunter, Runner...)

Regards,
Title: Re: Could a pushing dealer make a floor call ?
Post by: Nick C on July 03, 2017, 08:05:51 AM
Boris,

 I suggest that the dealers always call the floor for a decision. Recognizing the error, either by a player or the dealer himself, is expected of a good dealer. Allowing the dealer to make a "call" is not recommended because often they were responsible for the mishap. There are very few exceptions...one might be a flipped or exposed card, while dealing, that would be replaced by the burn card. Other than that, call the floor.

 I don't know what authority your chip runners or seat hunter, (seat hunter...never heard that title before) might have but the only decision maker in my card room is the card room manager, TD or floorperson.
Title: Re: Could a pushing dealer make a floor call ?
Post by: BROOKS on July 03, 2017, 03:24:04 PM
Hes not saying that the dealer "makes the call"
Hes asking whether or not that dealer standing behind, waiting for the hand to be over and get in the box, should call the floor if he thinks the floor is necessary - and the current dealer isn't calling for a floor person (cuz he wants to handle it himself)
Do you think that "observing" dealer (or a chip runner, etc) should call the floor over if the the "dealing" dealer is not?
Title: Re: Could a pushing dealer make a floor call ?
Post by: Nick C on July 03, 2017, 05:16:57 PM
Thanks Brooks,
Absolutely...or at least insist that the seated dealer call the floor.
Title: Re: Could a pushing dealer make a floor call ?
Post by: Boris Mauboussin on July 04, 2017, 07:59:13 AM
Thank you for your answers guys.

Nick : On some events I work on, Seat hunters are in charge to retrieve all the empty seats. Most of the time, dealers shout "Seat Open 32 - 4" but sometimes no one hear it, or the dealers did not say it. The only events I saw this kind of staff is on 6-Max events (Like the SiSMIX in Marrakech, Morocco). They have a wireless device on which they enter the empty seats. Then the TD could easily manage breaking tables, which is a very recurring situation on 6-Max tournaments =)


Back to topic, I think we need some more advices. Despite I appreciate reading you Nick, this answer is not polarized enough to my binary mind =)
Title: Re: Could a pushing dealer make a floor call ?
Post by: Nick C on July 04, 2017, 11:14:04 AM
Yes Boris, I agree more advice would be helpful. In a short answer I'd say that only the floor can make a decision, not the dealer.

 Thanks for your description of the Seat Hunter...it makes sense especially with the large events. I never worked rooms larger than 200 players so I don't have that experience with the tournaments of today. We always expected the dealers to announce whenever a seat opened at their table, just as you described. "Four seats open on table 16" as an example.

 I hope you get the response you're looking for.
Title: Re: Could a pushing dealer make a floor call ?
Post by: Dave Miller on July 05, 2017, 08:48:28 PM
I couldn't find it, but, isn't there a rule that states that anyone, even a spectator, who notices a mistake, is obligated to point it out?

As such, yeah, the waiting dealer should call the floor.
Title: Re: Could a pushing dealer make a floor call ?
Post by: Nick C on July 06, 2017, 11:34:34 AM
Dave,

 Any player can point out a mistake, but the matter must be resolved by the floor.
Title: Re: Could a pushing dealer make a floor call ?
Post by: Boris Mauboussin on July 12, 2017, 09:23:41 AM
I couldn't find it, but, isn't there a rule that states that anyone, even a spectator, who notices a mistake, is obligated to point it out?

As such, yeah, the waiting dealer should call the floor.

The only thing I found is in Player Reponsabilities

2: Player Responsibilities
Players should verify registration data and seat assignments, protect their hands, make their intentions
clear, follow the action, act in turn, defend their right to act, keep cards visible and chips correctly
stacked, remain at the table with a live hand, speak up if they see a mistake, call for a clock when
warranted, transfer tables promptly, follow one player to a hand, know and comply with the rules,
practice proper etiquette, and generally contribute to an orderly event.


But it is player specific. Too bad Summit is over, this would have been a great thing to fix.